Full text of "Music lyrics and commerce : hearings before the Subcommittee on Commerce, Comsumer Protection, and Competitiveness of the Committee on Energy and Commerce, House of Representatives, One Hundred Third Congress, second session, February 11 and May 5, 1994"

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/ MUSIC LYRICS AND COMMERCE

4, EN 2/3; 103-1 12

RTNOS

sic Lyrics and Connerce* Serial H. . .

BEFORE THE

SUBCOmilTTEE ON

COMMERCE, CONSUMER PROTECTION, AND

COMPETITIVENESS

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON

ENERGY AND COMMERCE

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED THIRD CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

FEBRUARY 11 and MAY 5, 1994

Serial No. 103-112

Printed for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
82-668CC WASHINGTON : 1994

For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office
Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office, Washington, DC 20402
ISBN 0-16-044889-1

Y MUSIC LYRICS AND COMMERCE

4. EN 2/3:103-112

sic Lyrics and Connerce, Serial H. . . ^JA-ll^l ^JTO

cEFORE THE

SUBCOmnTTEE ON

COMMERCE, CONSUMER PROTECTION, AND

COMPETITIVENESS

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON

ENERGY AND COMMERCE

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED THIRD CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

FEBRUARY 11 and MAY 5, 1994

Serial No. 103-112

Printed for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce

'"'em

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
82-668CC WASHINGTON : 1994

For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office
Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office, Washington, DC 20402
ISBN 0-16-04A889-1

COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE

DINGELL, Michigan, Chairman

CARLOS J. MOORHEAD, California

THOMAS J. BLILEY, Jr., Virginia

JACK FIELDS, Te:(a8

MICHAEL G. OXLEY, Ohio

MICHAEL BILIRAKIS, Florida

DAN SCHAEFER, Colorado

JOE BARTON, Texas

ALEX McMillan, North CaroUna

J. DENNIS HASTERT, Illinois

FRED UPTON, Michigan

CLIFF STEARNS, Florida

BILL PAXON, New York

PAUL E. GILLMOR, Ohio

SCOTT KLUG, Wisconsin

GARY A. FRANKS, Connecticut

JAMES C. GREENWOOD, Pennsylvania

MICHAEL D. CRAPO, Idaho

JOHN D

HENRY A. WAXMAN, Cahfornia

PHILIP R. SHARP, Indiana

EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts

AL SWIFT, Washington

CARDISS COLLINS, lUinois

MIKE SYNAR, Oklahoma

W.J. "BILLY" TAUZIN, Louisiana

RON WYDEN, Oregon

RALPH M. HALL, Texas

BILL RICHARDSON, New Mexico

JIM SLATTERY, Kansas

JOHN BRYANT, Texas

RICK BOUCHER, Virginia

JIM COOPER, Tennessee

J. ROY ROWLAND, Georgia

THOMAS J. MANTON, New York

EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York

GERRY E. STUDDS, Massachusetts

RICHARD H. LEHMAN, California

FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey

CRAIG A. WASHINGTON, Texas

LYNN SCHENK, California

SHERROD BROWN, Ohio

MIKE KREIDLER, Washington

MARJORIE MARGOLIES-MEZVINSKY,

Pennsylvania
BLANCHE M. LAMBERT, Arkansas

Alan J. Roth, Staff Director and Chief Counsel

Dennis B. Fitzgibbons, Deputy Staff Director

Margaret A. Durbin, Minority Chief Counsel and Staff Director

Subcommittee on Commerce, Consumer Protection, and Competitiveness

CARDISS COLLINS, Illinois, Chairwoman

EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York CLIFF STEARNS, Florida

JIM SLATTERY, Kansas ALEX MCMILLAN, North CaroUna

J. ROY ROWLAND, Georgia BILL PAXON, New York

THOMAS J. MANTON, New York JAMES C. GREENWOOD, Pennsylvania

RICHARD H. LEHMAN, Cahfornia CARLOS J. MOORHEAD, Cahfornia

FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey (Ex Officio)

JOHN D. DINGELL, Michigan
(Ex Officio) '.

-- -■ David Schooler, Staff Director / Chief Counsel

Angela Jackson, Counsel
Eddie T. Arnold, Special Assistant
'*- Douglas F. Bennett, Minority Counsel

Mary-Moore Hamrick, Minority Counsel

(II)

CONTENTS

Page

Hearings held on:

February 11, 1994 1

May 5, 1994 73

Testimony of:

Barrow, Andrea, co-host, In The Mix, WNYC TV, New York City 86

Coleman, Marvin J., outreach coordinator. In The Mix, WNYC TV, New

York City 76

ComeUus, Don, president, Don Cornelius Productions, Inc., Los Angeles

CA 19

Eley, Paris, senior vice president, Motown Records 128

Evans, Fred S., principal, Gaithersburg (MD) High School 141

George, Nelson, journalist 34

Glickson, Melanie, co-host. In The Mix, WNYC TV, New York City 84

Harleston, David, president, Rush Associated Labels 38

KeUey, Robin D.G., professor of history and Afiican American studies.

University of Michigan 143

Madison, Joseph E., syndicated talk show host, TPT News, Inc., Washing-
ton. DC 24

Riley, Tammy W., artist manager. Flavor Unit Management, Jersey City,

NJ 143

Rose, Tricia, assistant professor of history and Africana studies, New

York City University 145

Rosen, Hilary, president, Recording Industry Association of America 129

Singleton, Ernie, president, Black Music Division, MCA Records 36

Tucker, C. DeLores, chair. National Political Congress of Black Women ... 4
Waters, Maxine, a Representative in Congress from the State of Califor-
nia 63

Whitaker, Yolanda "Yo Yo", recording artist. East West Records 40

Material submitted for the record by:

Lipsitz, George: Statement 152

Warwick, Dionne: Statement 70

ail)

MUSIC LYRICS AND COMMERCE

FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 11, 1994

House of Representatives,
Committee on Energy and Commerce,
Subcommittee on Commerce, Consumer Protection,

AND Competitiveness,

Washington, DC.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room
2123, Raybum House Office Building, Hon. Cardiss Collins (chair-
woman) presiding.

Mrs. Collins. This hearing of the Energy and Commerce Sub-
committee on Commerce, Consumer Protection, and Competitive-
ness will come to order.

Our first panel today will consist of Dr. C. DeLores Tucker, who
is the chair of the National Political Congress of Black Women. We
had invited the Reverend Dr. Calvin O. Butts, IH, pastor of the Ab-
yssinian Baptist Church, but I understand he will be unable to at-
tend.

We have Mr. Don Cornelius, president of Don Cornelius Produc-
tions, Inc., Los Angeles, California; and we believe that Mr. Joseph
E. Madison, syndicated talk show host of TPT News, Inc., is on his
way.

Won't you come forward, please.

We are going to begin with you. Dr. Tucker. Let me say that the
subcommittee operates under a 5-minute rule. I think all of you
should be aware of the fact that you are given approximately 5
minutes to give your oral statement, with the full knowledge that
your entire statement will be made a part of the record.

Let me say this — prior to that time, we will have our opening
statements. The testimony rules are that each panelist is given 5
minutes in which to give an oral statement, which should really be
a summary of the full written statement. After that period of time,
the question-and-answer session begins. Anything you may not
have been able to say on the record at the time of your oral state-
ment may still become a part of the record because some things
you might have wanted to say may come out during the question-
and-answer period.

Good morning and welcome to today's hearing, which will be the
first in a series of hearings on the production, sale and distribution
in interstate commerce of music which contains sexually explicit,
violent and misogynistic lyrics. I am not here to legislate morality,
but I do believe that this series of hearings will raise the moral
consciousness of the country.

(1)

Parents and others have been questioning music lyrics for ages.
In fact, when I was 7 or 8 years old, I remember my grandmother
calling me an infidel because I was singing the lyrics of a Bessie
Smith song called "In the Dark." I didn't have any idea what those
lyrics meant, but I happened to have liked the music, so I was
singing it.

During the 1950's, I remember a song called "Work with Me,
Annie", by Hank Ballard and the Midnighters, which was changed
to "Dance With Me, Annie", because the title was considered too
suggestive.

And of course, who can forget "Louie, Louie", banned because of
its alleged vulgarity.

Now, things are more serious. Rock and gangsta rap lyrics are
facing increasing scrutiny as concerned people and young people
themselves question the extent to which a whole generation of chil-
dren are being exposed to music that degrades women and pro-
motes violence and other antisocial behavior.

Some women are concerned about the extent to which the artists'
rights under the First Amendment are affecting their rights not to
be sexually harassed. In fact, the National Political Congress of
Black Women, Inc., requested these hearings.

Legislation to curtail the accessibility that minors have to music
with so-called "obscene or erotic lyrics" has been introduced in over
20 States. In 1987, the State of California brought the first "por-
nography rock" case when a parent complained to authorities that
her 14-year-old daughter gave her 11-year-old son a copy of the
Dead Kennedy's album that contained graphic depictions of various
sexual acts.

More recently, 2 Live Crew's album was the first recording de-
clared obscene by a U.S. District Court. This was later overturned
by the Court of Appeals. It is my understanding that some of to-
day's recording artists such as Flava Flav, Tupac Shakur and
Snoop Doggy Dogg have found themselves in legal trouble for en-
gaging in the behavior about which they sing.

Many of you here probably remember the Senate Commerce
Committee's 1985 hearings on rock music lyrics. Frank Zappa, Dee
Snider of Twisted Sister, and John Denver testified. Those hearings
brought unprecedented attention to and documented the morally
offensive, sexually explicit and satanic lyrics of rock music.

Today, we will explore the morally offensive, sexually explicit,
violent and misogynist l3rrics of gangsta rap. Parents, teenagers
and other concerned citizens are outraged about the references to
women — particularly Afro-American women — in profane, deroga-
tory and foul language. They are concerned about the gratuitous vi-
olence — ^which typically shows people as perpetrators of violence
against women and otners. They are concerned about the sexually
explicit and graphic language.

The National Political Congress of Black Women, Inc. and others
have picketed local retailers and gathered signatures for petitions
to be submitted to the recording companies. Some radio and tele-
vision stations have decided not to play this music and some retail-
ers will not sell these recordings to minors.

People are complaining, yet no one in the industry seems to be
listening and taking the complaints seriously.

Congress is listening.

Make no mistake, hip hop and rap are very important forms of
music. We can't forget that this music has given a voice to a large
number of young people. It has greatly increased the number of
young Americans working in the recording industry. Hip hop and
rap music generally are not the focus today. At issue today is that
subcategory of rap called gangsta rap.

No one is arguing that recording artists should not express their
views concerning the world around them. However, when an end-
less stream of negative images reaches your children, there is a se-
rious problem.

It has been reported that some artists find it necessary to resort
to vulgarity and sexually explicit lyrics in order to obtain contracts
with recording companies. When positive rappers cannot get re-
cording contracts unless they become gangsta rappers, there is a
very serious problem.

When there is more emphasis on making money from negative,
degrading and demeaning images than presenting the positive mes-
sages that rappers want to send, there is, again, a serious problem.

As a response to the 1985 rock lyrics controversy, the recording
companies started voluntarily labeling some of the explicit record-
ings. This was an important, commendable step. Yet, I cannot help
but point out the fact that 9 years after Senate hearings, policy-
makers are being forced to revisit the issue of negative lyrics be-
cause citizens are incensed, and it is clear that more needs to be
done.

While we must ensure that all citizens are free to exercise their
First Amendment rights, we must also remember that the govern-
ment has legitimate interests in protecting its youngest citizens.
Policymakers take this responsibility very seriously. Currently,
Congress has been investigating the access that children have to
television violence and video game violence. Many States prohibit
the sale of pornographic magazines to children and the Federal
Communications Commission can require that television and radio
programs that contain indecent speech be regulated for broadcast
during hours when children are unlikely to be listening to the me-
dium.

I invite the recording industry to enter into a dialogue with this
subcommittee and other citizens about voluntary measures that
can be taken to ensure that both First Amendment rights are pro-
tected and children are protected from music that may not be ap-
propriate for certain age groups. I encourage the industry to exer-
cise greater responsibility in this area.

In future hearings, the subcommittee will investigate the effects
of negative music lyrics on children and the views of the retailers
and broadcasters that disseminate this music. The subcommittee
will also hear testimony from the young people that listen to this
music. I am so committed to hearing from the young people, that
I have invited students from local high schools to attend this hear-
ing. I have a teen adviser sitting right behind me, giving me feed-
back on the issues surrounding this debate. His name is Thaddeus
E. Arnold.

I applaud the concerned citizens here today for bringing this
issue to national attention, and I commend them for having the

foresight to see the continuous flow of demeaning negative images
distributed to young people as a problem worthy of attack.

I want to assure the industry that the purpose of these hearings
is not to bash the recording industry. As many of you know, I intro-
duced and successfully moved the Audio Home Recording Act,
which became law last Congress. I will continue to support the in-
dustry when it is warranted, but I must also speak out about the
industry when that too is warranted.

[The prepared statement of Hon. Cliff Steams follows:]

Statement of Hon. Cuff Stearns

Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I commend you for holding this hearing. Like
many others here today, I am deeply troubled by the music lyrics which all ttw often
seem to advocate violence and sexual abuse.

I have a strong and abiding faith in the Constitution of the United States, and
I believe deeply in the First Amendment. But as Oliver Wendell Holmes said 70
years ago, "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man
falsely snouting 'fire' in a crowded theater thereby causing panic."

As I read lyrics from many popular songs and see the violence and perversion in
much of our society today, I can t help but wonder if the words and images in the
popular media aren't contributing to the moral erosion of our communities.

I had the opportunity yesterday to visit with representatives of the recording in-
dustry, most of whom are here today. They told me that because the Is^rics in much
of todia/s "gangsta rap" reflect the realities of the inner city, blaming the rappers
and producers is like shooting the messenger while ignoring the message. But
music, as we all know, is a powerful medium, and when used to advocate me deg-
radation of women or the murder of police officers, those who write and produce
such music must acknowledge that the medium, to some degree, becomes the mes-
sage.

Madam Chairwoman, I do not know what we in Congress can do to address this
problem. In Florida, we have actively sought to prosecute those who distribute ob-
scene music, just as we have with tnose who distribute pornography to our youth.
The courts overturned the verdict in the "2 Live Crew" obscenity case, yet many feel
something must be done to stop the production of violent, misogynistic material, and
they feel this way whether it's music or film or printed material.

Artists must have the right to produce freely and without fear of censorship. But
we as a people must also have the right to protect ourselves and our children fi*om
material that is obscene, brutal, and nihilistic. Perhaps we can begin a dialogue
today to help us produce a solution to this seemingly intractable problem. I hope
so, and I Iook forward to hearing fi"om our witnesses.

Thank you. Madam Chairwoman.

Mrs. Collins. I want to thank all of the witnesses who are ap-
pearing, and I look forward to hearing vour testimony today.
We will now begin with you, Dr. Tucker.

STATEMENTS OF C. DeLORES TUCKER, CHAIR, NATIONAL PO-
LITICAL CONGRESS OF BLACK WOMEN; DON CORNELIUS,
PRESIDENT, DON CORNELIUS PRODUCTIONS; AND JOSEPH
E. MADISON, SYNDICATED TALK SHOW HOST, TPT NEWS

Ms. Tucker. Thank you very much.

The Honorable Cardiss Collins and members of the Subcommit-
tee on Commerce Consumer Protection and Competitiveness, I
thank you for the opportunity to testify and to raise my concerns
for the welfare of the young people of this Nation. I speak as the
chair of the National Political Congress of Black Women, a non-
profit, nonpartisan organization for the political and economic
empowerment of African-American women and their families.

As I prayerfully prepared my testimony for this important con-
gressional hearing, which was courageously convened by Congress-
woman Cardiss Collins, I was consumed by a penetrating thought.

The thought was this. If Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., the moral
leader and conscience of this Nation, were alive today he would be
leading a nationwide crusade to restore the deteriorating moral
values of this Nation.

Again, it would be Dr. King who would be marching and dem-
onstrating against the glamorization of violence and its corrupting
influence, which has now become a part of our culture in the name
of freedom. This freedom, freedom from responsibility and account-
ability, is not the kind of freedom that Dr. King, Medgar Evers,
John Lewis, James Farmer, Rosa Parks and so many others risked
their lives for.

Indeed, Dr. King would be deeply saddened by those in our com-
munity who abuse and misuse the freedom of speech by dehuman-
izing, demeaning and degrading our own women. Dr. King would
take offense to have African Americans who for decades fought
against stereot3rpical "Amos and Andy" and "Aunt Jemima" images,
now be the subject of public disrespect as a result of the messages
heralded by gangsta rap.

So, Congresswoman Collins and members of this congressional
subcommittee, I come to you in the spirit of Dr. King and on behalf
of millions of African American women, women who should not be
seen as objects of disdain, but rather as grandmothers, mothers,
sisters, aunts and daughters who demand respect and who demand
that the human decency and dignity that is defended and protected
for other members of Ajnerican society should not be so freely com-
promised in our case.

Yes, images that degrade our dignity and insult our children and
families concern us too, as any other self-respecting member of so-
ciety. Even if it comes out of our own mouths, the gangsta rap and
misogynist lyrics that glorify violence and denigrate women is
nothing more than pornographic smut. And with the release of
Snoop Doggy Dogg's debut album, "Doggystyle", that includes the
graphic artwork that is in the room here today that is sold with
it.

Because this pornographic smut is in the hands of our children,
it coerces, influences, encourages and motivates our youth to com-
mit violent behavior, to use drugs and abuse women through de-
meaning sex acts. The reality of the 1990s is that the greatest fear
in the African American community does not come from earth-
quake, floods or fires, but from violence, the kind of violence that
has already transformed our communities and schools into war
zones where children are dodging bullets, instead of balls, and
planning their own funerals.

This explains why so many of our children are out of control and
why we have more black males in jail than we have in college. As
an illustration of this, let me share with you excerpts from a letter
that I received from a prisoner in Lorton, Virginia.

He said, "Rappers make it sound so good and look so real that
I would drink and smoke drugs just like on the video, thinking that
was the only way that I could be somebody. My hood girls became
ho's and bitches. What is so bad is, they accepted it, and you know
why? Because they put themselves in the video, too, and the guns,
money, cars, drugs and men became reality. But look where this
kind of thinking has gotten me — facing 25 years to life in jail."

Enough is enough. I am here today to put the Nation on notice
that the proliferation of violence and unacceptable sexual messages
in our youth's music is due in large part to the avarice of the
record industry. The record industry is now demanding in many of
their contracts that these messages of degradation be in the music
of the artist. The record industry is out of control.

Something must be done to stop the financing and promoting of
this cultural plague that is infecting the minds of our most valu-
able asset, our children. I am sa3dng that principle must come be-
fore profit.

For 400 years, profit came before principle as African Americans
bore the brunt of slave-masters' degradation. But even through the
middle passage and the brutality of slavery the spirit of African
American families was not broken — our sense of humanity and mo-
rality remained intact.

Today, however, our morality, which has been our last vestige of
strength, is being threatened. Lyrics out of the mouths of our own
children display no respect for African American women, and as
such, the souls of our sisters are being destroyed, and so, too, their
progeny.

Others want to argue about the First Amendment right to free
speech. They further argue these artists should be allowed to speak
about their reality and the degrading conditions of the ghetto. As
Terri Rossi of Billboard Magazine observed in her article in that
magazine, that would allow to us pound defeat into America's psy-
che and meanwhile do nothing to alleviate the degrading condi-
tions.

As I see it, there are three things that prevent gangsta rap from
being a freedom of speech issue. Number one, it is obscene; number
two, it is obscene; and number three, it is oljscene. In my view, it
was never intended by the Founding Fathers of this Nation that
First Amendment rights be for the protection of obscenities. Con-
sistent with this, in 1992, the Canadian Supreme Court ruled that
it was more important to ban speech that is dehumanizing to
women than to protect free speech.

Obscenity has long been an exception to free speech. If the filth
that is depicted in the cartoon displayed in front of you is not ob-
scene, then I submit that nothing is obscene.

I am personally aware of one little girl, a fifth grader at St.
Augustine's Catholic school here in Washington, DC, who walked
into a record store and purchased the Snoop Doggy Dogg CD which
contains the pornographic artwork displayed before you on the
easel. In fact, her principal is here in the audience. It is appalling
that a child can walk into a record store and purchase this kind
of smut, which includes an 800 number that can be called 24 hours
a day for ordering Snoop Doggy Dogg pornographic merchandise.

No one — I say it again, no one has the right to poison our chil-
dren's minds and poison their values. That is why NPCBW and our
supporters, which number 8 million people from all the organiza-
tions it is endorses, will continue to demonstrate and do whatever
is iiDcessary to prevent this cultural garbage from being sold to our
children.

In closing, I wish to quote from an extraordinary and historic
editorial published by Billboard Magazine, a whole page. This is

the Bible of the industry. It said this: "No one form of popular
music is important enough to justify or excuse racism, sexual big-
otry and the endorsement of sociopathic violence. Such leads to the
death of the conscience, corruption of the spirit, and will ultimately
destroy the individual and the community."

Finally, no one and no industry should be allowed to continue
this social and psychological genocide of the women and the young
minds of this Nation. So I say to you again, the record industry is
out of control. And if it has to be regulated, so be it.

Thank you very much.

Mrs. Collins. Your time has expired. We are having trouble
with the lights up here. We are going to use this clock, so when
the bell goes off it means the time has expired. Of course, you may
finish your sentence or thought but we want to be fair to everyone.

[Testimony resumes on p. 19.]

[The attachments to the prepared statement of Ms. Tucker fol-
low:]

NATIONAL POLITICAL CONGRESS OF BLACK WOMEN, INC.

«00 New Bampshin Atuuk, N.W. * Suite 1125 * V/ttbiofOm, D.C 20037 • (202) 13S-0800 • Fax a02) 625-0499

.v52:£ir.

NATIONAL POLITICAL CONGRESS OF BLACK WOMEN
I ENTERTAINMENT COMMISSION

'iWACES WAR ON GANGSTER LYRICS AND MISOGYNY IN RAF

NATIONAL OFHCERS:

CHAIR

BoK. C Dtlam Tucktr

CHAIR EME31ITU5
BoK. Shiritj Oiu/ioU*

FIRST VICE CHAIR
Jtrr. WmU Banmr

SECOND VICE CHAIR
Dihonh Lmii

1EIRD VICE CHAIR
Nicatt Ucfhinom

RECORDING SECRETARY
RtT. Donikj J, louj

ASSISTANT SECRETARY
TaJiija K. f/joAama

TREASURER

lUr. Oloiia E. UiBtr

GENERAL COUNSEL
J/oiinc Btlhtl Cadt, Ejq.

BOARD OF DIRECTORS

CEiuia AnJmom

Cmbtriy BtO

CjnUiia Booth

Virion Carer

Cjnilm Dowia

Giraldiiu R. Eun, Etq.

Qutta ClaJJtm

DoiatBa Jama

Trish Uorris-Tamba
Bout Obtj
CwtnJoljn Patton
JohiuUt Fict
Anniat Rainwaur
Barham W. SJdiuur
Hon. MabU Thomai
Treat E. Thomas, Esq.
Onah WeUan
Jeriene Worthy

So if yon at a show in the firont row
Fm a caD you a bitch or a dirty-ass ho
You probably get mad like bitch is supposed to
... So what about the bitch who got shot?

F her

You think I give a damn about a bitch ...

■anricMOiriUCM^itaa.* N.WJL

Bitch I just wanna f yon and cut

Treat ya like a trammpy slut.

Her body's beantifiil so Fm thinkin' rape
ShouMn't have had her curtains open so that's ha
fate ...
Slit her throat and watched her shake

THiiiliifilMiili' TbcCctoBa)*

Cause we're like the outlaws stridin' whfle suckers are
hidin'.. Jump behind the bush when you see me drivin' byt
Hanging out the window with my magnum taking out some
putos. Acting kind of loco, Fm just another local kid
From the street gating paid for my vocals.

*Haw I Coold JiM m A Ha* Qfrai^

CO-CHAIR.S

Melba Moore

Internationally Acclaimed Artist

Dionne Warwick
Internationally Acclaimed Artist

Terri Rossi
Entertainment Industry Executive

Om THE CRUSADE TO REBUILD A WnOLESOME AND LDE NURTURING fOUNDATION TO OUR COMMUNITIES, TO ENSURE TOE

P»ge9

4TH STORY of Level 1 printed in FULL format. . ».©

Broadcasting Copyriglit (c) 1988 Information Access Company; ^^
Copyright (c) Broadcasting 1985 '' S**^

September 23, 1985

SECTION: Vol. 109; Pg. 28

LENGTH: 1830 words

BODY

Congress all shook up over rock Ivriea

Senate committee examines call by Parents Music Resource Center for warning
labels on records with objectionable Ivrica; musicians and record industry
testify tha t

would violate First Amendment rights; some senators say there will be no
legislation on matter, bu t

Hollings says there should be if all else fails

It looked more like a media event than a congressional hearing as members of
the public 2md the print and electronic press crammed into a Senate Commerce
Committee room last week to hear musicians Framk Zappa, Dee Snidei of Twisted
Sister and John Denver discuss so-called pronographic rock lyrics. The
musicians defended their right to "artistic freedom' and raised objections to
proposals by parent groups for warning labels on records with lyrics
containing "explicit sexual language, profanity, violence, the occult and the
glorif icattion of drugs and alcohol . '

The issue was of keen interest to members of the Senate Commerce Committee
who convened the hearing to air cooplaints of the Parents Music Resource Center,
a group of influential Washington women {Pam Howar; Sussui Baker, wife of
Treasury Secretary James Baker; Tipper Gore, wife of Commerce Committee member
Albert Gore [D-Tenn.l, and Sally Nevius) . PMRC wants warning labels on
records that are apt to offend and " Ivrica for labeled Muaic products . . .
provided to the consumers in some form before purchase . ' The group has asked the
recording industry to "appoint a one-time panel to recommend a uniform set of
criteria which could serve as a policy guide for the individual coopaines.'
BcUcer told the Senate panel that PMRC will ask MTV to label videos and to
cluster the "harmless, safe videos for when young children are viewing. '

PMRC is not seeking legislation; it only wants to "educate and inform parents
about this alairming new trend as well as to ask the industry to exercise
self-restraint, ' Baker testified. Senate Commerce Committee Chairman John
Danforth said that the hearing had not been called to "promote any legislation.'
He said there was "zero' chance that a bill addressing the matter would pass.
"We're here simply to provide a forum for airing the issue. There is a concern
that the public should be aware of the existence of this kind of music'

But Senator Ernest Hollings (D-S.C), ranking minority member on the Commerce
Comnittee, held emother view. "I tell you it is outrageous; we've got to do

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something about it, ' Hollings said. And, he said, he was going to ask the best
constitutional minds if there isn't soine way to legislate. Hollings later noted
that the "First Amendment absolution does not pertain to broadcasters.'

Senator James Bxon (D-Neb.) warned he might "join others in supporting
regulation unless performers see fit to clean up their act.' But in the same
breath, Bxon questioned the purpose of the hearing. "I wonder, if we're not
talking about federal regulation or legislation, what is the reason for these
hearings? vftiy are these media events scheduled if we're not being asked to do
anything about it?'

Senator Gore, present at the hearing, said: "The proposals made do not
involve the government. What they [the PMRC) are asking for, is the music
industry to show some self -restaurant: and come up with a voluntary guide system
for parents. This kind of material is really very different from material that
caused controversy in past generations . '

Sharing Gore's concern about the lyrics was Senator Paula Hawkins (R-Fla.),
chairman of the Senate Subcocinitt ee on Childr en. Fa mily, nmgg anH Alcoholism,
who also testified. HawlciHB~ glay ed_two~|jo ok-3d.deos (Twisted Sister's "Not Going \
To Take It' and Van Halen's "Hot foT~Teacher' ) and presented exan^les of what /
she considered to be obscene rock album covers. '

Zappa's presence generated a lively discussion. "The PMRC proposal is an
ill -conceived piece of nonsense whidi fails to deliver any real benefits to
children, infringes the civil liberties of people who are not children emd
promises to keep the courts busy for years, ' Zappa said. The PMRC demands arg, ^
the equivalent of "treating dandruff by decapitation, ' he added. "No one has 1

forced Mrs. Baker or tlrs. Gore to bring Prince or Sheena Baston into their ■

hemes . '

Taken as a whole, Zappa continued, "the complete list of PMRC demands reads
like an instruction manual for some sinister kind of "toilet training program'
to housebreak all caaf>osers and performers because of the lyrics of a few.
Ladies, how dare you. ' He also charged the PMRC with confusing the issue by
cootparing song lyrics, videos, radio broadcasting, record packaging and live
performances. "These axe all different mediums, and the people who work in them
have the right to conduct their business without trade -restraining legislation,
whipped up like an instant pudding tiy the wives of Big Brother. '

Zappa provoked a sartorial responee . "I found your statement to be "boorish,
insensitive, insulting . . . You ha'ie destroyed any credibility with this body, '
Senator Slade Gorton (R-Wash.) told Zappa.

Zappa did, however, favor placing a copy of the lyrics in albums, as long as
■there's a way to pay for it.' He suggested that the government print the sheets
*to oiake sure consumers have the information. ' He remained staunchly opposed to
warning labels.

But the PMRC maintained that parents need to know what is on the records .
"Today, parents have no way of knowing the content of the music products their
children are buying, ' Baker said. "While some album covers are sexually
explicit or depict violence, many otliers give no clue as to the contents. ' For
exai^le, she said that "Jungle Love,' a hit song, is on an album t:hat also

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contains a song, 'If The Kid Can't Make Tou Cone, Nobody Can.'

Further examples of explicit lyrics »ere presented by PMRC consultant Jeff
Ling. He cited a Prince song about incest: "I was only 16, but I guess that's
no excuse. My sister was 32, lovely and loose. My sister never made love to
cinyone but me. Incest is everything it's said to be.' Long also mentioned a
song by Twisted Sister, "Under the Blade. ' "Your hands are tied, your legs are
strapped, you're going under the blade."

But the center's interpretation of tlist song did not sit well with Twisted
Sister's Snider. He charged the group with "character assassination' and
spreading misinformation. Snider said that Mrs. Gore characterized the song as
sado-masochistic. But in fact, he said, the song is about having surgery.
Moreover, he pointed out that all Twisted Sister albums contain a copy of the
lyrics in the record sleeves. ptarthermore , Snider rejected the claim that the
group's song, "Not Going To Take It, ' is violent. "I am very pleased to note
that the United Way is using a portion o£ the video on a segment on the changing
American family, ' he said.

Snider told the senators he does not favor exposure of children to some
lyrics. But, he said, it is "my job as a parent to monitor what my children see
and hear; no authority has the right to siake these judgments.' He maintained
that looking at the cover and titles of the songs should "cover all the bases.'
Snider was grilled by Senator Gore. "What does the name of your fan club, SMFFTS
stand for?' the senator asked. "Sick motJier fucking fans of Twisted Sister,'
Snider said. "Is that a Christian club.' Gore asked Snider, who earlier called
himself a Christian. "I don't know what Christianity has to do with prof ami ty, '
Snider replied.

"I strongly oppose censorship of any kind, ' Denver said. Like Snider and
Zappa, Denver was opposed to putting wminq labels on records. "I am opposed
to a rating system, voluntaury or otherwise, ' he said. Instead, Denver advocated
self-restraint within the broadcast and recording industries. He noted there is
always going to be misinterpretation of lyrics. He sa i d his song, "Rocky
Mountai n High, ' wa s bcu uied o n many radio stations because_it_jra8_incorrectly
"viewed as being about drugs.

"I'd like to acknowledge the PMRC for bringing this to our attention, ' Denver
said. But he felt the issue should be dealt with by parents' 'exercising
influence over their children.' But Danforth disagreed with Denver's charge of
censorship. "The point of the proposal is not less information; no one is
trying to prevent rock stars from publi^ing what they want. What the mothers
are saying is they don't have sufficient information. They don't want
censorship, ' the Conmerce Committee chairman said.

What concerns Denver the most about the RMRC campaign, he said, is "the whole
presentation comes from a foundation of fear' suid quoted President Franklin
Roosevelt: "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.' Hollings responded,
"Roosevelt didn't hear this music'

Little criticism was directed to broadcasters during the hearing. Indeed,
PMRC has coo^limented the National Association of Broadcasters and its response
to the issue. NAB President Eddie Fritts sent a letter ot the recording industry
several months ago, asking the companies to attach copies of lyrics to records

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distributed to radio stations.

Baker noted that "most broadcasters are very responsible and don't play the
worst offenders.' And Senator Gore praised the NAB for responding quickly to the
concerns of the PMRC. "It reflects well on the sense of responsibility on the
part of the industry and leadership. It's good first step.' Senator Paul Trible
also connnended NAB's efforts.

Fritts, in a statement before the committee, focused on NAB's activities to
create a "higher level of sensitivity' toward the issue. He noted, however, that
it is up to each station to "choose for itself how best to serve its community. '
NAB, he continued, would not intrude on any station's programing decisions. It
is concerned about balancing the "need for voluntary restraint with a strong
sensitibity to First Amendment concerns.'

The Recording Industry Association of America, however, has provoked another
reaction from the PMRC. RIAA is proposing that individual record companies
include a "packaging insciption that will state: "Parental Guidance-K^^licit
Lyrics.' ' But the PMRC wants one uniform standard administered by an industry
panel. RIAA President Stanley Gortikov defended the industry's position. "We
only ask that our proposal be given a chance to work, ' he said.

He emphasized that most lyrics reflect postive attitudes and practices. He
felt the PMRC has "unfairly characterized all artists and all conpanies as
universal practioners of evil.' And, he asked, why has the group focused only on
rock music? "What about movies? And magazine ads, prime time television, soap
operas, books and cable programs, ' Gortikov asked. "We must not trample the
rights of parents and other adults whose standards do not coincide with those of
the PMRC or the National tfusic Review Council or any other group.'

Photo: PMRC's Gore and Baker

Photo : Snider

Photo : Zappa

Photo: Denver

GRAPHIC: Illustration; Portrait; Caption: SuScUi BeiXer and Tipper Gore; Dee
Snider; Frank Zappa; John Denver

TYPE

Congress all shook up over rock lyrics; Senate committee examines call by
Parents Music Resource Center for warning labels on records with
objectionable lyrics

SUBJECT

United States. Congress. Senate. Committee on Commerce, Science eind
Transportation, investigations; Parents Music Resource Center, social policy;
Rock musicians, evidence; Rock imisic. investigations; Lyrics, investigations

NAME

Zappa, Frank, evidence; Snider, Dee, evidence; Denver, John, evidence; Baker,

Susan, evidence; Gore, Tipper, evidenceBroadcasting

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On the Beat

H/<i

Seattle's Ban on Erotic Discs

By Richard Harrington

WisAinfio" >'<M Suit Wtiier

Washington Gov. Booth
Gardner has signed a
bill under which record
store owners could face
criminal charges if they sell record-
ings with sexually explicit lyrics to
minors. The measure, which takes
effect June 13, adds "sound record-
ings" to a 22-year-old state law that
bans the sale, distribution or exhibi-
tion of "erotic literature, videos,
photographs and other things" to
minors.

Gardner called the bill a "subtle
warning shot" to the music indus-
try, which he said has promised to
impose self-regulation. However,
the existing law has never been
tested in court, the Seattle Times
reports, and prosecutors say it b
virtually unworkable because it
doesn't define what community
standards on obscenity are.

Washington's 1969 ban on the
sale of erotic materials to minors —
there are similar laws in 22 states,
which may explain why music indus-
try organizations did not fight this
measure with the vehemence they
have labeling laws — requires that
someone first complain to a local
prosecutor, who then reviews the
material and decides whether to
seek a court hearing. A county
prosecuting attorney, following no-
tice to a dealer, distributor or ex-
hibitor, may go to court to argue
that certain material is "erotic." If
the judge Gnds it so, it must be
labeled "adults only" and may not be
displayed or sold in a manner that
would make it readily accessible to
anyone younger than 18. Failure to
comply with labeling and display
rules subjects the dealer to con-
tempt of court charges. Selling, dis-
tributing or exhibiting material to a
minor is a crime carrying fines and
Jail time ranging from $500 and up
to six months in jail for a first
offense, to $5,000 and at least a
year in jail for a third offense.

Gardner signed the bill March 20
despite 4,000 faxed protests that
swamped his office after MTV pub-
licized the phone number. The gov-
ernor's office reported that more
mail, calls and faxes were received
on this issue than anything except
for health care reform, and that
'virtually all" of the messages were

tarians opposed to the bill and call-
ing it heavy-handed, vague and ca-
pricious.

In his recent Sute of the State
Address. Gardner acknowledged
Washington's burgeoning repuu-
tion as a rock center, pointing out
that he is "governor of the home
state of Nirvana, the hottest new
rock band in the country." Even so,
he said last week, the expanded bill
"gives parents some needed assis-
tance in limiting access to certain
types of music."

It certainly won't affect the kind
of music Gardner prefers. In a 1984
political questionnaire, the gover-
nor said his favorite song was "I'd
Like to Teach the World to Sing (in
Perfect Harmony)," the spinoff of
the 1971 Coke commercial

On the Beat

-luh\

Putting Rock in a Hard Place

Battles Over Censorship Continue Across the Nation

By Rjchaid Harnngton

/ / •^ ex. Sin, and Blasphemy" sounds
V V^^ like the title for a new album by
"^^ a group such as Slayer, but its
K^ subtitle gives it away: "A Guide
to America's Censoiship Wars." Wntten by
Marjorie Hems. he«l of the American Civil
Liberties Union's Arts Censorship Project,
the New Press paperback explores and
explains the major censorship controversies
that have erupted ia recent years. There
are chapters on nnfity in art, theater and
dance; government funding of the arts; fJm
ratings; pomograp*y and obscenity laws;
and, of course, warning labels about lyrics
on recordings, an issue since the Recording
Industry AssociatioD of America bowed to
congressional and pubUc pressure in 1985
by instituting a voluntary labeling system
that still didn't satisfy many state legisla-
tors, who introduced their own various bills
around the country.

None of the several dozen lyric labeling
laws has been enacted, though several were
passed by legislataes. only to be vetoed by
more liberal goveraors (as they were twice
in Louisiana) or ovtrtumed in court (as was
the Washington state "erotic music' bill).
Earlier this year, Bational and local music
industry lobbyists persuaded members of
the Washington House of RepresenUtives
not to advance a new version of the "erotic
music' legislation.

Tipper Gore's Role

For vears. the RIAA's main thorn was
the Parents Music Resource Center, begun
in 1985 by, amoag others. Tipper Gore,
wife of then-Sen. AI Gore, and now the Vice
Spouse. Along witk the National PTA, the
PMRC exerted the most consistent pres-
sure on the recordng industry to adopt and
then refine its vokintary "parenul adviso-
ry/explicit lyrics" warning sticker, particu-
larly after the mucfc-publicized 1985 Senate
hearings, which Gore later termed 'a mis-
take (for giving) the misconception that
there was censorsfcip involved.'

Surprisingly, this did not become a major
issue during last fall's presidential cam-
paign, possibly because Tipper Ckire had
already begun to Minimize her involvement
with the PMRC aod because she has public-
ly repudiated nuBdatory-labeling legisla-
tion. She resigned from the PMRC earUer
this year, but soae "right to rock" forces
are still wary, pKticularly since she has
been named as a national menUl health
adviser. Rock (M. Censorship points out

that according to a PMRC pamphlet, "Mu-
sk— A Health Issue." certain kmds of mu-
sic—notably hard rock, rap and heavy met-
al—pose "unprecedented threats to the
health and well being of adolescents." Suy
tuned.

The Television Front

In an echo of those 1985 lync labeling
hearings, network and cable television offi-
cals were on Capitol Hill last week to
testify before a Senate Judiciary subcom-
mittee in relation to the TV Violence Act,
being sponsored by Sen. Paul Simon (D-IIl.).
Simon's bill would grant the television in-
dnstry an antitrust exemption in order to
wwk together to cut back on gratuitous
depictions of violence, which some critics
ciiarge are responsible for fueling aggres-
sive behavior and violence in the nation's
streets and homes.

Rep. Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.) has
proposed that TV shows be rated like mov-
ies and that sets be e<juipped so that par-
ents could block the reception of violent
shows. An unprecedented meeting of broad-
cast, cable and motion picture executives
win address the problem in Los Angeles in
early August. And a problem it is, Simon
says: "^e face a choice of censorship or
responsible voluntary conduct."

One of those who testified Friday was
Frank Biondi, president and CEO of Viacom
International Inc., which owns MTV and
VH-1, as well as Nickelodeon, Showtime
aod the Movie Channel. Biondi noted that
MTV reaches 57.5 million households in
America, the majority of that audience be-
tween 18 and 34, and split equally by
gender. According to Biondi, MTV acquires
aD its videos (which account for 85 percent
of its programming) from studio labels, but
that of the 40 or 50 videos received each
week, many are rejected for airplay. Of
those in which MTV has shown interest
during the first quarter of 1993, "27 per-
cent were rejected specifically for reasons
having to do with violence, drug endorse-
ment or the negative depiction of women."
(This last may be a surprise to longtime
viewers). Producers can then submit edited
videos for reconsideration.

Biondi also noted that shows like "Head-
bangers Ball" and To! MTV Raps" are
shown after 11 pm. "Ijecause both are
examples of programs we feel may not be
enjoyed by the large mainstream audience."
Both, he might have noted, used to have
regular afternoon slots.

The Washinctow Post

^•p>«n«>.M4Tl6. 1990 F7

On the Beat

Sticker Labeled Unsatisfactory

By Richard Harrington

UtOmgum Pwi Sutf Vmcf

1 i

ot all of the legislative cntics of
explicit rock and rap music have
been won over by the Recording
Industry Association of America's
unveiling last week of a uniform parental
advisory label. Starting in July, the label wiU be
atfbted to albums that might be deemed objec-
tionable by some parents because of 1>tics
about sex, violerce and substance abuse.

"Are they kidding? It stinks." Missouri state
Rep. Jean Dtxon told the Associated Press.
"This plan doesn't even touch most of the music
we're taEdng about" Dbcon is perceived as the
major architect of a campaign that at one pomt
prompted consideraton of labeling bills in 21
states, though her own mandatory bill recently
died in committee. IXxon cntiaad the see.
color zs.i -mtmt -^ :'•' Rl»* ''•»!• ^ler h"
would have mandated a bright yeOow label witti
a laundry list of offensive subjects.

Louiaana state Rep. Ted Haik toM the Los
Angeles Times that he would not withdraw
any of his three "offensive" record labeling bills
"until I see some positive actioa My proposal
stays until the record industry prtives that it is
serious about regulating such material"

The RlAA's black-and-white sticker will be
permanently affixed to the front, tower right-
hand comer of certain releases, under the
ceitophane wrapper. The advisory is aimed at
helping parents identify potentially objection-
aole material though no specific standards
have been set as to what constitutes e-xpiiot
lyrKS. No monitoring or advisory panel viU be
created to establish guidelines, and it remains
Op to record labels and artists to decide which
albums to sticker, and to retailers to decKle
■whether to restrict sales of stickered albums.
Critics of both mandatory and voluntary labels
insist that they stigmatize controversiaJ re-
cordings under the rubric of expbatness, mak-
ing them targets of either retailer boycotts or
consumer protests. This is apart from the
issue of obscenity, whk:h has dogged grtwps
such as 2 Live Crew, and so far the various
music industry groups that have fought against
mandatory labels have not been partioilarty
eager to defend the rap group, whose "As
Nasty as They Wanna Be' has now been
decided obscene in counties in six states
(Florida. Tennessee, Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana
and Pennsylvania).

On Trial

In Fort Lauderdale on Monday, members of
2 Live Crew defended their sexually explicit
lyrics as humorous and artistic during the first
day of a federal trial to determine whether the
group's albuni shoukl be banned in Broward

County, Fla. The rap group sutd Broward
Sheriff Nick Na\-arro in Marcn after he ihrent-
ened to arrest anyone selling the album. Na-
varro's order was prompieo by a state court
opinion that "As Nasty as They Wanna Be"
bordered on the obscene. Since then, the

Actual size labels for the LP and CD long box
•ini apH »h# rA««<'(t* 'nd TD iew*' b^x.

album has been pulled from record store
shelves throughout the county.

Band members rolled an X-rated \Tdeo
called Teasers," called on a sex therapist to
rcid ilcud frcm c ccllectior. 'jf "ferr-jiist por-
nography," handed the judge a stack of raun-
chy magazines and booKs (aO bought in
Broward County) and spun tape of coarcs
Eddie .Murphy and Andrew Dice Clsy. The
group sought to show that "^iasty" is mild by
comparison and ought to be returned to reccrtl
store shelves. The m3:;azincs— including
More Fun for the Wife and Naked Stranger —
were intended :o show \i.e judge what pornog-
raphy IS, and what it does, said 2 Uve Crew's
attorney, AUer. Jacobi. "Nasty," he argued,
does not appeal to "prurent r.terest." whidi is
one of the criteria that must be met for
banning the album.

Greg Baker, a music writer at the New
Times weekly newspaper in Miami described
the IS-year development of rap music, cafiing
it "important musk: . . . good music That is
whv we have written about it and continue to
write about it" Baker's testimony is critical to
the grxmp's case, because under a 1973 Su-
preme Court ruling, if any materia] — no mat-
ter luiw offensive to a community — is dsemed
to have "serious artistic value." then it is
protected by the First .Amendment

U.S. District Judge Jose Gorjalez did r«t
say when he will make ha dedsicn.

Meanwhile, late bst week in Los Angeles,
U.S. District Judge James Ideman barred 2
Live Crew leader Luther Campbell from using
"Luke Skyywalker" as a stage name pendir.if
the outcome of a $3C0 miilkjn tradenvu-k
ini'ringement suit filed by Lucasfilm Ltd. The
judge said Campbell's use of the na.Tie "crented
and will continue to create a likelihood of
confusion" with the "Star Wars" hero.

A14 THE WALL STREET JOURNAL MONDAY. APRIL 2. 1990

POLITICS & POLICY

State Lawmakers Tackle Issue of Song Lyrics
In Debate Over Rock and Role of Government

By David Shxibman

stuff Rtporter o/Tme Waij. STuerr Jouhmal
ANNAPOUS. Md. - State legislator
around the nation are listening to 2 Live
Crew, Guns N' Roses and Ozzy Os-
Ixxime.

Committee chambers here and In Lin-
coln. Neb.. Topeka, Kan.. Des Moines.
Iowa and Jefferson City. Mo., aren't ordi-
narily regarded as arenas tor the randiest
strains of rock n' roll, but the lyrics of
contemporary music are competing with
the details of state budgets and the small
print of insurance regulation for the atten-
tion of lawmakers.

An effort to require warning labels on
recordings of rock and rap music has
moved to the statehouses. and a third of
the state legislatures are deliberating the
question. Partly because of this, the record
companies have agreed to come up with a
new voluntary Industrywide labeling stan-
dard.

The debate over labeling raises serious
questions about the role of government and
about artistic freedom.

Michele Davis, director of the Republi-
can Governors Association, says, "For the
decade of the 1990s, the most bitter, emo-
donai debates -the screaming, the crying,
the real tough questions -are going to be In
the state capitols. "

Tanya Blackwood, spokeswoman for the
Recording Industry Association of Amer-
ica, says. "All of this stuff going on in the
state legislatures Is one of the most serious
issues the record industry has faced. It's
harder to fight because were dealing with
all of these legislatures instead of just go-
ing up to Capitol Hill and conducting one
fight.'

.Many of the state bills were prompted
by conservative groups -some of them

part of the Christian Right-that sprang up
to battle school cumcuia. sex education,
abortion rights and child care. The groups
include the Rev. Donald WUdmon's Ameri-
can Family Association.

"This is a political force in Its own
right, " says .Michael Geer. president of the
Pennsylvania Family Institute. Thomas
Jipping. director of the Washington-based
Free Congress Center for Law and Democ-
racy, says, "It's part of the same pro-fam-
ily movement that's trying to protect tradi-
tional values. "

The issue cuts across political party
lines. The major sponsors of record-label
legislation here in .Maryland and in Penn-
sylvania were Democrats.

"I'm not Jerry FalweU," says state
Rep. Ronald Gamble, whose bill to require

"All of this stuff going on in

the state legislatures is one

of the most serious issues

the record industry has

faced."

-Tanya Blackwood,
RECORDING Industry

ASSOClAnON OF AMERICA

record labeling prevailed In the Pennsylva-
nia House 149-51. "We're regular guys who
don't think kids should be listening to this
junk. We're spending millions fighting teen
violence and suicide and then across the
street there's the recording Industry glori-
fying and promoting the very things we're
fighting. "

The labeling movement got its start
when Tipper Gore, wife of U.S. Sen. Albert
Gore, and Susan Baker, wife of Secretary

of State James Baker, expressed alarm a
songs dealing with sex and violence.

Four years ago. their group. Parents
.Music Resource Center, and the Natlona
PTA agreed with the Recording Industr>
Association of America on a voluntary la
beling system. It included a warning labe
("Explicit lyrics, parental advisory") or
the printing of the lyncs on the record
jacket.

Today. Parents' Music Resource Center
opposes the bills in state legislatures mak
ing record labeling a legal requirement.

'The record producers can show re-
sponsibility themselves by creating a use-
ful consumer tool, " says Mrs. Gore. But
she also thinks the record companies
haven't lived up to the spirit of their agree-
ment

The major opposition to laws on label-
ing comes from groups that agree with
People for the America Way that record
labeling is "the music censorship move-
ment of the 1990s. "

"This is just another one of these at-
tempts to legislate morality. " says Stuan
Comstock-Gay. director of the Maryland
chapter of the American Civil Liberties
Union. "People don't want to hear what
they don't like-messages about Satanism
or drugs or sex. But one of the bedrock
Ideas of our society is that we allow all
kinds of ideas, even offensive ones."

When Maryland's House Judiciary Com-
minee recently considered labeling legisla-
tion, the hearing attracted Jim Rogers, di-
rector of Mission America who says "we
have to have mainstream ideas controlling
the country. " and Kenneth Stevens, a re-
tired federal employee who says "the pru-
dish super-moralists persist in trying to
use government to tell the rest of us what
we can read or view " The bill died in
committee.

In some state, music industry officials
worry that legislative moves could disrupt
the music distribution system. In Arizona,
for example, record-store operators say
the legislation before the state senate-on
hold while lawmakers review the new vol-
untary measures -would require stores to
invest millions to monitor and latiel rec-
ordings.

'That burden would be ridiculous, so
the practical effect is that everything
would get a label on it. " savs .Michael
Braun. a Phoenix. Ari2.. attorney for the
Recording Industry Association of Amer-
ica. 'That's the only way the record stores
can protect themselves-and it would de-
fea: the purpose of the legislation."

Es a- a 8 >%

iilifp

in m I

£»

— g tl e <J

ill fl.I

LEVEL : ■ - OF :: stories

December ;2. :993, Wednesday, Final Edition

SECTION: Part C; METROPOLITAN TIMES; REGIONAL NEWS; Pg . C3

LENGTH: 3 38 words

HEADLINE: 'Gangsta rap' protest gets 5 arrested

BYLINE: Gretchen Lacharite; THE WASHINGTON TIMES

BODY

rive protesters arrested in front cf a record store yesterday said they are
waging war against " gangsta rap, " music with lyrics that they feel degrade
women and encourage violence.

The leader of the National Political Congress of Black Women, C. Delores
Tucker, was arrested after blocking the entrance to the Nobody Beats the Wiz
record score at 1115 F St. NW. Joining her in plastic handcuffs were former
D.C. Council member Nadine winter, syndicated radio personality Joe Madison,
activist and comedian Dick Gregory and Bishop Thorpe of the Solid Rock Full
Gospel Baptist Church in the District.

"This crusade is against misogynist lyrics and gangsta rap, not the artist, "
Mrs. Tucker said at a press conference before the protest. "These companies
should refuse to sell such cultural garbage.

"We must not let the pornography rap be played in our homes this Christmas
or ever, " she said.

The group then marched to the store from the Grand Hyatt. There, they were
met by store employees who appeared ill -prepared for the protesters outside.

As the temperature hovered at 43 degrees and the wind reached 43 mph,
protesters gripped signs that read "Gangsta rap is rape" and "Stop the violence:
Eliminate gangsta rap."

Shoppers inside stood staring at the pickets and customers who weaved their
way along the sidewalk to enter the store. More than one employee pushed
protesters and a cameraman away from the door. Store employees refused to
comment yesterday.

"We are not thought police, and we are not trying to stifle anyone's First
Amendment rights," Mrs. Tucker said.

Some of the onlookers disagreed with the group's tactics. "Gangsta rap
isn't the reason for violent offenses," said Mike Frsuicis, who said he works
with troubled youth in the city. "This will more likely alienate [youngsters]."

"I disagree with this as a tactic," said Ambrose Lane Jr., an announcer
known as "X-man" on WPFW radio. 'It amounts to censorship."

GRAPHIC: Photo, Ron Cartier pretests violent, sexual rap outside the Nobody
Beats the Wiz store in Northwest yesterday.. By Kenneth Lambert/The Washington
Times

LANGUAGE; ENGLISH

LOAD- DATE -MDC: December 22, 1993

Mrs. Collins. Mr. Cornelius.

STATEMENT OF DON CORNELIUS

Mr, Cornelius. Madam Chairwoman and members of the com-
mittee, in order to understand the ever-growing popularity of a
music form known as gangsta rap, it is necessary to briefly explore
rap music in general and some of the reasons why rap has become
the musical entertainment preference of many millions of youth
and young adults throughout the free world.

Originally intended as a purely entertaining form of street and
night club or dance club rhyming or poetry spoken over prerecorded
music tracks, rap music has evolved into a somewhat legitimate
popular music art form for which many young musicians, lyricists,
and recorded music producers — ^who are connected, often sociologi-
cally, to America's underclass, particularly that segment which is
African American — are able to express various kinds of com-
mentary on some of the harder realities of life as it exists in many
of America's African-American ghettos. The preponderance of re-
corded rap music which deals with ghetto life is likely to include
extremely profane lyrics, lyrics which tend to glorify violence or il-
legal firearms or drug use, lyrics which are degrading or disrespect-
ful to women or sexually explicit l5n-ics. This kind of rap has be-
come widely known as "hard-core" rap.

The form known as gangsta rap is a relatively recent spin-off of
basic hard-core. Gangsta rap lyrics tend to glorify or glamorize re-
belliousness, defiance of the law, or various forms of street hustling
in the minds of its listeners, much the same way as being bad or
tough has historically been and still is being glamorized in the
movies and oftentimes on television.

As to the question, why would African-American youth be so re-
ceptive to the marketing of hard-core and gangsta rap and the mes-
sages within, I would ask, why wouldn't African -American youth
pay attention to artists who seem to fully understand the life-style
problems that African-American youth face? And why wouldn't Af-
rican-American youth be anxious to listen to recording artists who
are willing to openly discuss and dramatize many of these dire
problems within the context of their records?

In spite of its many critics and detractors, rap music has indeed
been very effective and, in some ways, a Godsend in providing en-
tertainment relief and, in many cases, economic relief to a largely
forgotten community.

On the other hand, it goes without saying that anyone who sells
any form of entertainment which is either antisocial or illegal in
nature and cannot be indulged in except behind closed doors, is en-
gaged in what could be defined as pandering. This same standard
should also apply, regarding hard-core or gangsta rap.

If I were asked, should governmental steps be taken to curtail
hard-core or gangsta rap, or to clean up rap lyrics, or to make re-
cording artist's or record companies' pandering to the rebellious-
ness of youth illegal, I would say no to all three.

Consumer pandering within reason is, of course, an accepted
practice in America with respect to entertainment distribution.
Movie studios and home video movie distributors openly pander to
customers who enjoy somewhat antisocial or sexually explicit enter-

tainment. Most major distributors of such entertainment do, how-
ever, exercise a reasonable degree of social responsibility through
the almost universal use of a well-designed rating system.

Rap music, in my view, does not need to be censored. Rap music
and all other recordings — I repeat, all other recordings — do need to
be rated just as movies are. Records by any recording artists which
are violently or sexually explicit or which promote illegal drug or
firearm use or any other antisocial behavior should be clearly
marked and identified as X-rated. The parental guidance sticker
system presently being used in the recording industry is simply not
enough.

While a rating system may not completely solve all of the prob-
lems concerning hard-core or gangsta rap recordings, such a proc-
ess may be well worth considering, Madam Chairwoman, as a place
to begin.

Thank you.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Cornelius follows:]

Statement of Don Cornelius, President, Don Cornelius Productions

In order to understand the ever-growing popularity of the music form known as
Gangsta Rap it is necessary to briefly explore rap music in general and some of the
reasons why rap has become the musical entertainment preference of many millions
of youth and young adults throughout the free world.

Originally intended as a purely entertaining form of street and night club or
dance club rhyming or poetry spoken over prerecorded music tracks, rap music has
evolved into a legitimate, popular music art form through which many young musi-
cians, l3Ticists and recorded music producers who are connected, often sociologically
to America's underclass (particularly that segment which is African-American) are
able to express various kinds of commentary on some of the harder realities of life
as it exists in many of America's African-American ghettos. The preponderance of
recorded rap music which deals with ghetto life is likely to include extremely pro-
fane lyrics, lyrics which tend to glorify violence or illegal firearms or drug use, lyrics
which are degrading or disrespectful to women, or sexually explicit l)Tics. This kind
of rap has become widely known as "hard core" rap.

Rap artists who specialize in hard core are well aware going in that hard core
records, for obvious reasons, get no radio station airplay whatsoever, which would
literally be the kiss of death for any other recording artist. This is usually not the
fate, however, in the case of hard core rappers, thanks to what is known as the
"under-ground" retailing market, a random array of small, independent record
stores located usually in urban areas of the United States and specializing (at least
partly) in hard core rap records which are sold mostly through word of mouth. It
was eventually determined that the harder the core of an underground rap record,
the bigger the unit sales and the more income the artist and the record label would
earn.

The underground record market established the fact that there exists an enor-
mous audience (comprised mostly of youthful record buyers) which apparently en-
joys hard core rap. Moreover, this consumer group is not limited to African- Amer-
ican youth who live in America's African-American ghettos. Record industry sales
research indicates that roughly 60 percent of all rap records sold are bought by
whites.

The form known as Gangsta Rap is a relatively recent spin-off of basic hard core.
Gangsta Ray lyrics tend to glorify or glamorize rebelliousness, defiance of the law
or various forms of street "hustling" in the minds of the listeners, much the same
way as being 'Taad" and "tough" has historically been and still is being glamorized
in the movies and often times on television.

As to the question: "Why would African-American youth be so receptive to the
marketing of nard core and Gangsta Rap and the messages within?", I would ask:
"Why wouldn't African-American youth pay attention to artists who seem to fully
understand the lifestyle problems that African-American youth face. And why
wouldn't African-American youth be anxious to listen to recording artists who are
willing to openly discuss and dramatize many of these dire problems within the con-
text of their records?"

Please keep in mind that, for the most part, these are African-American youth for
whom America has shown no real concern for, at least during the past decade or
more. These are African-American youth in whom our country has invested very lit-
tle over the past decade in terms of channeling economic assistance and better
training and education to them and to the adults they rely upon. Over the last dec-
ade our country has invested almost nothing toward creating the kinds of oppor-
tunity which would allow such citizens to eventually better their Uves, their sur-
roundings and ultimately their futures as Americans. I tend to wonder if we
shouldn't be far more concerned about eliminating poverty violence, despair and
hopelessness from low income African-American communities than we £ire about
eliminating Gangsta Rap.

In spite of its many critics and detractors, rap music has, indeed, been very effec-
tive and in some ways a Godsend in providing entertainment relief and in many
cases economic relief to a largely forgotten community.

On the other hand, it goes without saying that anyone who sells any form of en-
tertainment which is either anti-social or illegal in nature and cannot be indulged
in except behind closed doors, is engaged in what covild be defined pandering. This
same standard should also apply regarding hard core or Gangsta Rap. Therefore,
any recording artist or record label who creates or sells any record which is anti-
social, profane, violent or sexually explicit in nature to such a degree that it cannot
be listened to in pubUc without offending others or cannot be listened to by youthful
fans of such music in the presence of an adult authority figure, in a certain sense,
is also engaged in pandering. I recently heard a well known Gangsta rapper explain
his philosophy during a TV interview. He said, "I make music for poor people and
there are far more poor people than rich people! So, as long as I satisfy poor people,
111 always have a job!"

I viewed this explanation as quite inteUigent and well thought out; but clearly a
case of pandering to the naivete of youthful record buyers who are intrigued by anti-
social commentary.

At this time I am not prepared to say which is more perverse between pandering
by certain political idealogues who do it to appease those who are turned on by pro-
law and order, anti-urban development, anti-welfare and tax cutting rhetoric or pan-
dering by recording artists and record companies to youth who think it's hip to lis-
ten to Gangsta Rap.

If I were asked, "Should governmental steps be taken to curtail hard core or
Gangsta Rap; or to clean up rap lyrics; or to make recording artists or record compa-
nies pandering to the rebelliousness of youth illegal, I would say no to all three.

Consumer pandering within reason is, of course, an accepted practice in America
with respect to entertainment distribution. Movie studios and home video movie dis-
tributors openly pander to customers who enjoy somewhat anti-social or sexually ex-
plicit entertainment. Most major distributors of such entertainment do, however, ex-
ercise a reasonable degree of social responsibiUty through the almost universal use
of a well designed rating system.

Rap music does not need to be censored. Rap music and all other recordings do
need to be rated just as movies are. Records by recording artists which are violently
or sexually explicit or which promote illegal (frug or firearm use or anv other anti-
social behavior should be clearly marked and identified «is "X-rated." llie "parental
guidance" sticker system presently being used in the recording industry is simply
not enourfi.

The MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) rating system allowed the
movie industry to separate exploiters and panderers fixtm legitimately creative film
makers.

The same result can occur with regard to the music industry with the support and
participation of the RIAA (Record Industry Association of America). As the situation
now stands, there is no real stigma attached to the creation, marketing or advertis-
ing of a profane or anti-social record or LP. Individuals and companies which now
openly pander to youth consumers who are attracted to anti-social recorded product
would market such product with far less pride of accomplishment in the face of a
strong rating system.

A strong rating system will also place somewhat of a stigma on consumer owner-
ship of such product regardless of the consumer's age.

While a rating system may not completely solve all of the problems concerning
hard core or Gangsta Rap recordings, such a process may be well worth considering
as a place to begin. Thank you.

Mrs. Collins. I don't want to overlook Mr. Madison if he has
come in the room. He has not.

I am going to begin with you, Mr. Cornelius. You mentioned in
your testimony that the parental guidance sticker system presently
being used in the recording industry is simply not enough. I have
to agree with you.

I was just given a recording by Coolyo, and I had to ask, where
is the parental advisory? This little bitty thing down here is what
they had to show me, because actually I couldn t see it.

This reminds me of some hearings we had on toy safety. We were
told by the industry that there were labels on the toys, but nobody
could see the labels. In this instance, I certainly couldn't see it. I
don't have 20/20, but I think if I had really looked for it without
being shown, I would have overlooked it as being part of the overall
artwork.

Here is another one. This one is by Onyx, and this is fairly —
more clearly — ^you are able to see it a little bit better. It is clear,
and one can see it. It says, "Parental Advisory: Explicit Lyrics."

This one is in the jumble of artwork that is on Snoop Doggy
Dogg, and it is down here, and you can see it better than you can
on the other one. But they are somewhat obfuscated. But you are
absolutely right; I believe that the sticker simply is not enough. I
have to agree with what you have said in that case.

Dr. Tucker, now, you have mentioned First Amendment rights.
Let me say, I am not an advocate of changing First Amendment
rights. I think everybody has a right to be creative. It goes to the
heart of our Constitution.

Why do you think it is necessary to relook at First Amendment
rights?

Ms. Tucker. Certainly Canada has done that, and as I said in
my testimony — have said that — the First Amendment right, first of
all, its intention was not to provide freedom of speech to use ob-
scenity.

The legislative intent of the First Amendment was to provide
citizens with the opportunity to redress the injustices of the gov-
ernment. Now it is being used to argue that anything that is said,
pornographic or explicit sex, and some words and some acts that
are actually depicted in the lyrics are being defended with this use.

I would say this, that obscenity has already been exempted from
the First Amendment right, because there are words now that are
bleeped, that cannot be said on the air. The very words our chil-
dren can go into the store and buy, they can hear them, but yet
they cannot be said. The "F word" is all through the language that
is in your kit. I can't even use it here. But kids can get it and hear
it and use it.

The First Amendment also permits — does not permit one to say
that they are going to kill the President. If I went out here today
and said, I am going to kill President Clinton, I would be arrested.

The First Amendment also will not let one incite — ^to sit in a
movie theater and say, fire — even our Attorney General, Janet
Reno, said you cannot do that. I think there is also a law that says
that you cannot incite to riot. You can be arrested for inciting to
riot. Many of us in the civil rights struggles of the 1960's were ar-
rested for inciting to riot.

These lyrics are inciting one to murder. They are inciting our
young people to use a gun and kill. They are inciting our young

people to cut her throat, rape her, and then 'T her." It is inciting
them to do all kinds of pornographic acts. It is telling them to get
a gun, ride in a car, and shoot her. Take a gun and do whatever
you want to do — kill a cop.

So the First Amendment, that was not the intent; and therefore
we feel that the FCC has gdready — ^was established to provide some
type of denial of freedom of speech for the airwaves. So it has been
used. This is not a new avenue, but it already has been used to
deny those kinds of lyrics or words that would incite to riot or to
anything that is negative and against — inimlcable to the best inter-
ests of this country or any people in this country.

Might I say, too, on the question of the parental advisory on
these albums or records or whatever they are, the tapes, parents
don't go in to buy them. Children — a fifth grade student at St. Au-
gustine Catholic School went in and bought the record. So they are
not talking to parents. It doesn't matter; it is the children. That is
what put us in front of the record stores and will keep us out there
until it is stopped.

Mrs. Collins. Mr. Cornelius, you mentioned about the labeling.
I happen to have here the same Coolyo Country Line music CD.
And it has on the front this very small advisory we mentioned be-
fore, but it also says on the back, radio version on Country Line,
Sticky Fingers radio version. What does it mean by that?

Mr. Cornelius. The custom in the record industry, particularly
regarding distribution of what is called "commercial copies" versus
"promotional copies", is — as a matter of fact, it applies to both com-
mercial copies, which are sold in the stores, such as you have; and
to promotional copies, distributed to those of us in the industry.
The marketers need to hear the record — ^is to provide several what
are called "mixes" which are, in fact, versions. Some sound dif-
ferent, some have a different lyric — some have a less hard-core
lyric; some are shorter in version — ^but the intent there. Usually
when you see a "radio version", that means that is a record that
can be played on the radio, and some of the profanity that was
originally intended for the consumer's ears, that does exist in the
album version of that record, is probably not on that radio version.
It means a clean version.

It is a euphemism, Madam Chairwoman, for "clean."

Mrs. Collins. Dr. Tucker, you say that the National Political
Congress of Black Women will continue to demonstrate outside the
record stores that sell this objectionable gangsta rap.

What effect do you think your protest has had so far?

Ms. Tucker. Well, we have demonstrated in front of the Wiz
record store, and we gave them 48 hours for the chief executive of-
ficer — president, chairman — ^to contact us, and they did it in 24
hours. They plan to meet with us. We had two meetings set which
were canceled by the snow.

But we continue to do this. We are demonstrating all over the
country. We are going to be launching a major offensive March the
12th when the weather clears up. It has already made a decisive
impact.

We have been able to get all of the national organizations— the
Civil Rights Leadership Conference, they have endorsed our posi-
tion; Reverend Joe Lowery, who cannot be here today, and all of

the civil rights leaders; all of the fraternity and sorority groups;
and the National Organization of Women have joined us.

So we will be marching throughout the country to make sure
that our children do not have access going into these stores. And
then we intend to talk with the owners of the major companies that
produce it and manufacture it. We have written them and we have
made some contact with them and we are just going to continue
until this scurrilous activity is removed from our communities.

I might add too that in getting back to this First Amendment,
I was just reading this here about the words here about, B, I just
want to F you, cut you, treat you like a trampy slut, and then these
words here that were on the Boss record, telling someone to put a
shotgun to one's head; and then the 2 Live Crew, something that
was passed out here, I can't even say the words, but I wish you
would refer to it this, it is in your package.

I can't say the words, but the First Amendment was not meant
to provide this kind of filth and pornographic smut to our children.

Mrs. Collins. We have been joined now by Mr. Madison; is that
right?

Mr. Madison. Yes, ma'am.

Mrs. Collins. We are glad you were able to make it. The other
panelists have already given their testimony. You are welcome to
give yours now.

STATEMENT OF JOSEPH E. MADISON

Mr. Madison. I apologize. My wife slipped and hurt her knee as
we were going outdoors. So, I do apologize.

Let me make my first point, from the very beginning of my state-
ment, and I made the point in a news conference in which I was
invited to be with Ms. Tucker. And that statement is in, basically,
two parts. Our mothers, our wives, our sisters, our nieces, our
aunts, grandmothers, cousins, girlfriends are not bitches and ho's.

I am not opposed to rap or hip hop as an art form. But I am op-
posed to gangsta rap. When radio stations bombard the airwaves
with these messages of hate, killing and self-destruction, it will
cause a conflict even within those families that may have taught
other values.

I have a 14-year-old son who is a perfect example, a good young
man who is on the honor roll, a star athlete in basketball and foot-
ball, but he began fantasizing and hero-worshipping the images of
thugs and criminals, even to the point of dressing like gangsta rap-
pers he saw on the music videos at night, and sometimes during
the day, and believed jail, in a conversation we once had, was a
better alternative to his middle-class home and existence.

It is not hard to imagine that young people emulate gangsta rap-
pers. Many of these rappers are their own age.

Hero-worshipping or emulating is a large part of all young peo-
ple's lives. Basketball legend Michael Jordan is paid millions of dol-
lars to endorse sneakers because advertisers and marketers know
that many children and some adults will buy those sneakers be-
cause they want to be like Mike.

Children go as far as shaving their heads, wearing black sneak-
ers and even try walking pigeon-toed to try to be like Mike, be-

cause they want the world to acknowledge them, for something
good, bad, positive, or negative.

What is so frightening to so many is, in depicting these depriva-
tions of the inner city, gangsta rappers believe they must not just
chant the part, but in some cases live it as well.

Tupac Shakur, for example, has been indicted by a grand jury on
one count of engaging in deviant sexual intercourse, sodomy and
gang rape. The same rapper allowed a woman to perform oral sex
on him in the middle of a crowded dance floor in a New York dis-
cotheque. He showed up at a magazine interview with a large bag
of marijuana in his hand, began carrying a gun. He returned to his
alma mater, the Baltimore School of Performing Arts, and gave a
shocking, profanity-filled address to students.

At the 18th Annual National Association of Black Journalists
Convention in Houston, Tex. last summer, remarks from a rap mu-
sician ignited a furor at an opening session entitled, "Hip Hop: The
Medium, Its Message and Responsibility." A member of a gangsta
rap group, Geto Boys, Bushwick Bill, peppered his remarks with
references to women as "bitches" and "ho's." When an audience
member asked the rapper why he used such terms, he replied, the
only women he knows are "bitches" and "ho's."

It is just sad to think that this is how the children of the civil
rights movement end up. People in the civil rights movement who
went to jail, and like Medgar Evers were killed because of their be-
liefs. Now, 30 vears later, their children are subjected to the glorifi-
cation of violence, sexual abuse, denigrating messages about
women, and disrespect for their community in general, all in the
name of commerce.

However, Billboard Magazine in December of 1993, in their edi-
torial, stated in part — No form of popular music is important
enough to justify or excuse racism, sexual bigotry, or the endorse-
ment of psychopathic behavior.

I would like to offer some suggestions. One, I would encourage
that the music industry police itself by instituting, as some have,
l3n*ic review committees and refuse to release certain records.

Two, that radio stations should stop pla5dng gangsta rap music
that glamorizes brutality and contains misogynist and racist lyrics.
I am very proud that Pierre Sutton, president of Inner City Broad-
casting in New York, and Willie Davis of KACE in Los Angeles,
Cathy Hughes of Radio One in Washington, DC, have announced
that they will not play gangsta rap.

I would hope that the FCC would review these stations and other
stations that are playing gangsta rap and that refuse not to — that
they would consider action against them as they did in the case of
Howard Stem and Infinity Broadcasting Corporation. And I also
hope that the FCC is not imposing a double standard on enforcing
decency in broadcasting.

Finally, we must begin to educate parents and the community in
general about the lyrics and their impact on our children.

Finally, all of my adult life I have been a vocal advocate — as a
member of the NAACP board, a staff member of the NAACP
board — an advocate of freedom of speech and expression. I also be-
lieve that along with freedom goes the responsibility to use it wise-
ly. In the give and take of the marketplace, bad and destructive

ideas hopefully are driven out or marginalized while the good ideas
are sustained.

Sixty years ago in another country the Jewish people had their
character attacked through the use of cartoons and other methods
of mass media. The process of dehumanization often began with
seemingly innocent expressions of free speech, only to gather
strength and become part of the fabric of the country's culture.

My opposition to gangsta rap should not be interpreted as a con-
flict between generations. I love young people, and it is because of
that love as an adult that I have an obligation to counsel them on
the damages of buying into an agenda of those who have no love
or respect for our community.

Most of us strive to give our kids a vital moral center — that is
our absence will remind them that women are to be respected, vio-
lence is a last resort, and no matter how much money gangsta rap-
pers make, their version of reality in black America must be re-
jected.

Thank you, ma'am.

Mrs. Collins. Mr. Madison, if the majority of the children are
able to take gangsta rap or other violent video games in perspec-
tive, are we really just making a mountain out of a molehill?

Mr. Madison. I don't know if we can say the majority of them
are. There haven't been any studies to indicate that is the case.
This is the argument, however, that is presented by those in the
industry.

But my main objection is that I don't know of any other culture
in America where the music is played to their young people that
calls for killing, the slitting of the throat of a mother and watching
her twitch. We don't see that type of message directed at young
Jewish kids. We don't see that type of message directed and played
on the stations that are directed at different demographics.

It seems to be very prominent in the black community.

So my point is that even though there may be a sense of reality
about what goes on in the inner city, it is also a reality that 97
percent of the people in our community are law-abiding people who
want the best for their children. And no matter how hard we may
strive to give them education, to see that they attend great schools
or good schools, we still have to deal with the peer pressure.

I am just opposed to this absurd message that accentuates the
negative and pretty much curtails what is positive about our com-
munity. And I would also add that hip hop and rap for a long time
were very positive in this country, and young black people were
singing the praises of Malcolm and Martin — and I don't mean Mar-
tin Lawrence; I mean Martin Luther King — and they were singing
their praises, and all of a sudden, here emerges this gangsta rap,
here emerges this negative discussion, and their attention is di-
verted over to the worst aspects of our culture.

Ms. Tucker. May I just make a statement, Congresswoman?

Mrs. Collins. Yes, and I am going to ask Mr. Cornelius the
same question. Go ahead.

Ms. Tucker. I just wanted to make this statement, that many
of the rappers that we have talked to have said that they have
positive messages, which do not receive the support or get contracts
from the industry. In the Wall Street Journal, there was a story

there about Lichelle "Boss" Laws. Her story says that they moved
to Los Angeles in the hopes of getting discovered. They have a won-
derful, positive rap; and they soon learned that the industry was
more fascinated with a group of hard-core gangsta rappers like Ice
T and NWA. With their softer style, the producers turned down
these nice young women, one that had gone to private school.

The producers turned them down, "/md they were telling us that
we didn't curse enough", says Ms. Laws. That is her quote. The
women decided to start using profanity in their rap.

Now they have turned this young lady into a gangsta, and her
title of— I think this album is "Bom Gangsta." A young woman,
private school, is in college, was doing positive rap, with nice uni-
forms; and everyone said it was great until she went to Hollywood,
and they told her she had to be a gangsta.

Now, here she is now, on an album or whatever, holding a gun.
She is now telling the world and telling young people who are buy-
ing this that she is a bom gangsta.

Mrs. Collins. Well, we are going to ask questions of the record-
ing industry when they come up here, but I do have a question for
Mr. Cornelius. The recording industry seems to insist we should
work toward reforming our decayed neighborhoods rather than
"wasting" our time on this issue. Does gangsta rap empower the
artists? Some say that it gives young people an opportunity to ex-
plain what their environment is like,

Mr. Cornelius. I think it gives young people an opportunity.
Any rap gives young people an opportunity to feel that they exist.
I am concerned that there is so much criticism against young peo-
ple, and so little information or ideas with respect to teaching these
young people how to channel their energies in other ways.

No, gangsta rap does not empower kids to do anything. It is only
kids saying — ^you know — we exist, we have problems. Our therapy
is to talk about them.

They are people who nobody really has spent much money on or
spent much concern on. They are part of a more or less forgotten
community. Along come these young rappers with all of this nega-
tive commentary who Eire sa5dng, we know that you are there, we
know what your problems are, we not only know what they are, we
are willing to dramatize and comment on these problems in our
records.

Which is to say that if you are a kid and you are just existing
and nobody really cares about you, and all of a sudden you look up
and people are talking to you about things you need to talk about,
you naturally would respond.

On the other side, people who never really cared about these peo-
ple are now concerned because folks who would like to make a liv-
ing, who consider themselves creative people, are responding to
these people. Where were these people before the rappers started
to create rap, and where were these people when these conditions
were developing?

I just don't think it is reasonable for any of us to sit here and
say what these young people shouldn't do and should be stopped
from doing without presenting any ideas as to what they might do
once you stop them from doing what they are doing. It is like say-

ing, stop — it is like saying stop having abortions, but not providing
any ideas as to what to do with the kids after you have them.

And I would also like to mention that you will find, Madam
Chairwoman, that this same, or very similar problems, exist with
respect to record release content vis-a-vis lyrics on the pop general
market or white side. And when you speak to witnesses like Ernie
Singleton, president of Black Music, MCA Records, or Nelson
George, probably one of the most astute writers in America on the
subject of African American life, they will probably be able to give
you much more information than I could with respect to the gravity
of the problem as it pertains to white records or general market
records and white kids.

I can't give you information on that industry because I only lis-
ten to black records.

Mrs. Collins. Generations have enjoyed your show, Soul Train,
You have been very instrumental in bringing many talented artists
to the attention of the country. What made you decide to take a
stand on the issue of gangsta rap?

Mr. Cornelius. Well, I don't consider it taking a stand, Madam
Chairwoman. I was invited and I have views on a lot of issues. Un-
fortunatelv, I don't get in trouble on it because nobody asks me.
You askea me so I kind of had to tell you, but more specifically to
your question, we are having some difficulty as a program market-
ing the programs with certain records containing certain lyrics con-
tained in our programs.

We specifically do not deal and are not able to deal with hard-
core rap in our programs. It just is not permitted yet. Television
is not there yet. Radio seems to be a lot more open or lenient to
some of the lyrics that are contained in rap records than TV sta-
tions are per se.

Therefore, if we want to stay in business, there are certain
records that we just cannot play whether we like them or not.

My concern is not just gangsta rap. We receive records and we
receive artists who report for appearances on Soul Train who have
records that are a bit too explicit sexually for us to use. Some of
the artists we like very, very much, and in some cases we have
good relationships with their managers or their labels or their pro-
ducers or what-have-you, but we have had to take a position with
respect to which agendas we will allow to be promoted on any Soul
Train show, and the agendas which we will allow to be promoted
number exactly zero.

If the record is not — has any reference to guns or gun use, there
is nothing I can do. I can't do the act. I can t do — unless we mute
certain Ijrrics. I can't play the record as a dance record. If it has
any reference to any misogynistic lyrics involved, we just push it
aside. If it has any reference to drug use, we either have to mute
the words — if the words are infrequent enough, we will mute the
words. If they are too frequent to mute, we have to pass on the
record altogether.

So that is why I have a concern. I haven't taken a stand yet. I
think every position taken contributes to the debate. I don't dis-
agree with anj^hing any of your witnesses have said so far with
respect to the comment being worthy of debate.

As far as my personal opinion, that is for another discussion.

But specifically as to my own stand, if you will, it is based on
the fact that some of this material is just not usable in the open
market and interstate commerce.

Mrs. Collins. Thank you. In your statement, I am looking at it
again, all the way back again to this sticker business, you mention
that the parental guidance sticker system being used by the record-
ing industry is simply not enough, and you make mention of the
Motion Picture Association rating system that allows the movie in-
dustry to separate exploiters of violence from legitimately creative
filmmakers.

Would you suggest that instead of this little advisory notice,
some kind of X-rating system or something like that be used on
these CD's and tapes.

Mr. Cornelius. Yes, I would, Madam Chairwoman. I think that
the parental guidance system allows producers, artists, labels, dis-
tributors, manufacturers, to release records that are vulgar, pro-
fane, antisocial in general with impunity. That is, they do so with-
out any stigma whatsoever attached to it.

In the movie industry, the Russ Myers type producers long ago
had to form a line to the left — in a line where people are who make
dirty movies and it became less respectable to do so once the rating
system kicked in.

There is that possibility that the same thing may apply in the
record industry, versus censorship, which I am not necessarily
against censorship because if you look around you, censorship oc-
curs fairly regularly, but usually with respect to issues that threat-
en children who are not black.

For example, there was a movie issue recently where there was
a scene in a movie where kids got ran over by a train or something.
I don't know specifics, but they kind of took the scene out of the
movie because a white kid tried to do that.

So a lot of folks who are anti-censorship don't seem to be anti-
censorship when it is initiated to protect whites. There is a cartoon
series on MTV that was moved around because it was felt that
some white kids got hurt as a result of them imitating something
on this cartoon series.

Well, to move that series is a form of censorship as well. So there
are arguments on both sides of the censorship issue. I am not sure
which side I am on. I think it depends on — it has to depend on the
situation. I don't think there is a blanket censorship solution that
applies in every case, but more to the point you raised, the — a
strong rating system which is monitored by the organization that
more or less oversees the record industry, which is the Record In-
dustry Association of America, and which is very similar to the Mo-
tion Picture Association industry of America, may take this indus-
try in a direction where releasing dirty records is not something
that one can do without suffering some damage to one's reputation.

Obviously that is not a solution, but neither is censorship.

Mrs. Collins. Thank you.

Mr. Madison.

Mr. Madison. Well, I wanted to make another point in reference
to censorship and the rating situation, and I would agree with Mr,
Cornelius on this.

The other thing we have to worry about is when our young peo-
ple, no matter what age, and I am talking now about minors, go
into record shops, they can hear some of the lyrics that Ms. Tucker
is reluctant to speak here today because she is a lady and no one
wants to hear that type of language.

So my 11-year-old will hear these misogynous lyrics and they are
blared throughout the record store. No one seems to control that
except by going to the manager and saying, do not have this on the
air.

This would be like going into a video store that sells videos and
then you air X-rated movies on the screen to spot show what you
sell behind the closed doors, and I think we need to understand
that.

The other point I wanted to make was, this is not confrontation
with young people. I had my own son who buys his cassettes and
CD's, and I asked him, "Let me see what you are buying, let me
hear your music, what is hip hop to you", and I pulled out a stack
of what he said was hip hop. I said, "What is rap or non-hip hop?"
He pulled out that stack. I said, "Now where is your gangsta rap?"
And he reluctantly pulled out his gangsta rap.

They can identify and they know the difference, but when this
came to our attention was, again, when we as adults were watch-
ing in our home what our children and what we have been told to
do, what our children watch on television, and we watched with
them these videos and we listened to these Ijnrics and then we
began to educate them that this is not the way you want to talk
and act in real life.

And so the pants had to come up off the hip and the shoe strings
had to go back in, and the language had to be cleaned up and the
fascination with guns had to end.

I have spent all my life working with young people. I was 23
years old when I became the executive director of the Detroit
NAACP. That was very young, and I spent most of my time work-
ing with young people and often we will hear young rappers say,
as one said yesterday in an interview I did on CBC, Canadian
Broadcasting. We were discussing this issue, that the older genera-
tion, the black leaders have done absolutely nothing. The black
politicians have done nothing for this generation.

Well, we obviously have more opportunities than we had 30, 40,
50 years ago and it was because many of us sitting here today sac-
rificed and gave our lives to see to it that this young generation
has at least the opportunity to do what they need to do.

Have we completed it all? No. And there is a lot of work to do,
but this is not because we do not love our young people. It is just
the opposite.

Mrs. Collins. Mr. Madison, you recommend that record compa-
nies refuse to release certain records. One, on what grounds would
record companies suppress certain records or songs, and two,
wouldn't this lead to censorship?

Mr. Madison. Again, I think, as Don said, we do have censor-
ship. You can call it what you want. I mean, censorship. I am a
talk show host and if I am not mistaken, there are seven
unforbidden words that I can't say on the air, and there is a reason
for that.

I think it is just simply a responsibility of using the freedoms
that we have wisely. Censorship, The freedom of speech and ex-
pression does not mean that one can simply be uncivilized in their
attitude and their behavior. I do censor my children in what they
can and cannot watch, and I think that although I pride myself on
being a purist, I certainly would not want to see legal legislative
censorship. I really would not, but I would want to give the music
industry an opportunity to police itself, just as they were given an
opportunity to police themselves when it came to violent movies.

Just this past year there was a violent video game that showed
people being killed in it and the industry responded by pulling it
off the shelves and then eventually Sega not producing it.

Mr. Cornelius. I think it is something — I agree, and I think it
is something closer to social responsibility, Madam Chairwoman.
As the witness just stated, partially true and partially not so likely
if there was a rating system. You don't see X-rated videos played
in a video store where a kid can readily walk in and see it. If it
was played — ^because X-rated videos are considered pornographic
material and it is against the law to expose pornographic material
in public, as far as I know.

If a record was X rated, X means X. It is like marriage. Marriage
means marriage. If you play an X-rated record in public, that
would probably be against the law.

So that what, if anything, needs to be legislated, it is something
that might at least encourage some social responsibility, and that
is all the movie industry exercises — is social responsibility. So that
we are kind of all on the same page.

It is just a question of semantics in terms of what you end up
calling it as chairwoman of the committee.

Mrs. Collins. I have a final question for you. Dr. Tucker. In
your testimony you seem to compare gangsta rappers' images to
the Amos and Andy and Aunt Jemima images of the minstrel era.

Is this a fair comparison? Aren't gangsta rappers seen by young
people as strong and hard as opposed to minstrel-like people?

Ms. Tucker. No, because Amos and Andy and Aunt Jemima
were promoted and financed to portray the images that many
blacks had to do in order to survive. They had to live, and I have
heard some of the gangsta rappers say they have to live. They are
going to get their $3 million and then when something happens
about gangsta rap, they will be gone.

So they have to live and they say that this is a way that they
can make a living, and we are being told in some quarters that if
we ban gangsta rap, we are going to deny a lot of young people jobs
and money and that. I said in a meeting that we had last evening,
**Well, then, should we let the drug industry continue?" A lot of
people have jobs through that.

But those images. Aunt Jemima and Amos and Andy

Mrs. Collins. Those jobs aren't legitimate jobs. Those are illegal
jobs.

Ms. Tucker. These really aren't legitimate either.

Mrs. Collins. In the eyes of the law they are.

Ms. Tucker. If this obscenity is against the law, to be used
even — Don Cornelius is saying he would not play the gangsta rap
on his show.

Mrs. Collins. That is a judgment call.

Ms. Tucker. Yes, but there are children though who can buy the
record, and then when I even tried to show the Snoop Doggy Dogg
artwork, I was told they couldn't show it on TV. And I used the
word that was in one of the lyrics. I used a word — some of you
know — I read the "F" word and some other words, and they told
me on the air waves that I am going to make them lose their li-
cense.

Now, if it is that bad, then why is it that a child can go in? I
am saying that the record industry as Sister Boss said, made her
do that in order to get a contract. She couldn't get in until they
were interested in her using the Ice T language and the other kind
of language, and that is why she is doing what she is doing.

And the last part of her statement was, yes, I am a bom gangsta,
I know how to do business and this is how I am going to do the
business.

And so they are being tools of the system and actually what some
have ssiid about these young gangsta rappers are they are the new
Tom raps of the hood, because they are being used in doing what
the industry is telling them in order for them to have a kind of life-
style that they want.

They want to be somebody. The fella that wrote me from the
prison said, we do it because we want to be somebody and the only
way they can be somebody is to do this kind of negative behavior.
The Mana did it in times past, is still doing it. Whatever they have
to do to survive, they are going to do it.

What I am saying is, and I want to say this very clearly, that
this isn't my business. My business has always been to help elect
men and women to office to sit where you are and to help us to
get the kind of legislation that will make our communities better.

I went out to campaign for a young woman who sits in this Con-
gress now, Maxine Waters. She asked me to come and campaign
for her when she first ran for the legislature. My life has been dedi-
cated to that, making certain we get men and women in office.

I used to march to the Capitol with Dr. King. I marched to Mont-
gomery, Alabama with him telling the Greorge Wallaces to let us go.
And I realized that when our feet left the church, we marched to
the political kingdoms of this Nation, Harrisburg, Pa.; Jackson,
Miss.; Washington, DC, saying to let us in.

That is what my life has been about because I understand that
in order to change the conditions that have been created and
spawned these gangsta rappers — what has spawned them is going
to be changed only through the political process. I have spent my
life, when I was secretary of state of Pennsylvania, was to make
sure the election procedures reduced the age from 21 to 18 so
young people could use the vote to get whatever they want.

I told some young rappers that I brought into my office, I said —
they came to me to help them. I said, you must help yourselves.
You can register, you can vote. Julian Bond was 21 when he be-
came a legislator. I told them that the whole civil rights struggle
of the 1960's was run by young students in college, Jessie Jackson
and Marion Barry. They were all students in SNCC, and I am
using them to use their power. And that is what the national politi-
cal Congress is about, helping to change those conditions to bring

jobs, to bring training, to bring education, to help them to under-
stand that the power to change themselves is in politics. I am urg-
ing them to register to vote, to campaign and run for office. Then
you can really change the conditions that will help your young
ones — ^who are 12, 13, 14 — emulating you to do something about it
by sitting in the seats of power throughout our country, in the city
halls and the State halls and right here in the United States Con-
gress and then in the oval office of this United States.

Mrs. Collins. Mr. Madison, your last words?

Mr. Madison. Well, first of all, I grew up listening to Soul Train
and I am happy to be sitting at the same table with Don Cornelius
and that is the one show my 14-year-old will watch and can watch
because of the reasons that he just said, and there are other shows
that he won't watch because of the reasons that he mentioned.

I marched and have a record in civil rights. I walked across this
country from Los Angeles to Baltimore, registering over 200,000
young people and took 100, all young people, with me. And so I re-
ject this notion that somehow I am out of touch and I don't under-
stand.

I understand, and I have had my rebellious times, and I thank
God that I had responsible adults who told me that when I became
an adult and it was my turn to be in a position of leadership, that
I would do the types of things that would uplift my community.

These young rappers glorify Malcolm X. If Malcolm X was alive
today, he would be sitting where I am sitting now. They glorify
Martin Luther King. If Martin was alive today, as a religious man,
he would be opposed to the type of images that are being
bombarded in the ears and the minds of our young people.

And so what I want to see young people become are Congress-
women, Senators, leaders of this country, not hoodlums and gang-
sters, and I wish that the recording industry would promote and
permit these young people to rap and chant about the things that
uplift a people, like Martin chanted about and Martin rapped
about.

Mrs. Collins. Mr. Cornelius.

Mr. Cornelius. Yes, thank you. Madam Chairwoman. I would
like to close by commenting with all due respects — respect to Mr.
Madison and Dr. Tucker. I don't specifically disagree with either.

I am not as personally insulted by rap music as they happen to
be. I don't feel that rappers should be indicted as a group as either
or both might be inclined to do. I do not feel that it is appropriate
to focus or overfocus on this symptom, be it rap, gangsta rap, or
hard-core rap without some serious focus on what brought us to
this point, what some of the causes are, but more importantly than
all of that, I think it is very important that we be careful not to
add to the glamorization of gangsta rap.

Gangsta rap, if you will. Madam Chairwoman, is only part of the
problem.

Some of the rap records that deal with sexual explicitness are,
in my view, as much a problem, if not more of a problem than
gangsta rap, and with all due respect to our other two witnesses,
I am not sure that they fully understand how popular rap is. It is,
in fact, not going anywhere.

You can do anything you want to do on this committee and when
you look around, rap is still going to be there unfortunately.

But the bottom line is that we don't, at least I don't want to over
glamorize gangsta rap, because the more we jump up and down
about it without any real solutions or ideas as to how to control it,
the more popular it is going to get, and we ought to take a hard
look at radio and television, not just with respect to how it treats
gangsta rap, because, again, that is only part of the problem, but
how it has evolved from 25 years ago when I started into radio to
an industry where you can say things now that you just could not
say — ^you couldn't even think about saying when I started in radio.

So that gangsta rap is only part of the problem and we don't
want to make heroes out of gangsta rappers through this commit-
tee, because I can assure you that they will not be uncomfortable
about Congresswoman Cardiss Collins forming a committee of dis-
tinguished citizens like these to talk about them.

So we need to do less talking about how much we dislike or hate
gangsta rap, and we need to come up with some ways in which to
control the antisocial things that are discussed on these records.

Mrs. Collins. Thank you, very much. I thank you, very much.
This has been a good panel. We have had a wide ranging discus-
sion with the opening panel of this series of hearings that we are
going to have.

We are now going to proceed to our next panel. I thank each of
you for appearing before us, especially those of you who have come
from very far distances and, Mr. Madison, we understand it took
a lot for you to get here. We appreciate your coming.

Our next panel will come forward: Mr. Nelson George, a journal-
ist; Mr. Ernie Singleton, president. Black Music Division, MCA
Records; Mr. David Harleston, president of Ral-Def Jam Recording;
and Yo Yo, a recording artist with East West Records.

Mr. Greorge, we are ready to begin with you,

STATEMENTS OF NELSON GEORGE, JOURNALIST; ERNIE SIN-
GLETON, PRESIDENT, BLACK MUSIC DIVISION, MCA
RECORDS; DAVID HARLESTON, PRESIDENT, RUSH ASSOCI-
ATED LABELS; AND YOLANDA '^YO YO" WHITAKER, RECORD-
ING ARTIST, EAST WEST RECORDS

Mr. George. Madam Chairwoman, it is a very great pleasure, I
feel very honored to be here. My name is Nelson George.

I was a black music editor of Billboard Magazine from 1982 to
1989, I have written several books on the evolution of black popu-
lar music in the United States and worked in rap music in a num-
ber of contexts, including motion pictures and charitable organiza-
tions.

In 1989, I, along with a number of other people in the record
business, organized a group called the "Stop The Violence Move-
ment." It was a collective of rappers as well as young people in the
record industry who put out a record, video, and a book looking at
black-on-black violence, and in the course of that, we raised
$300,000 for the National Urban League. So I have been very in-
volved with rap and also its social side.

I first became involved in rap music or aware of it in 1978 as
a college student in New York City when tapes of rap music were

being circulated along the streets of New York. I have seen it
evolve from something that was for the youth, basically of South
Bronx, as well as in Harlem. It has evolved into this multifaceted
music that embraces everything from jazz-oriented rap, tri core
quest, middle class rap, if you will, to Fresh Prince, Yo Yo rap,
which deals with feminist issues, all the way to basketball players
like Shaquille O'Neal making rap records.

Rap music is a very complicated form. It is not — even within one
artist, it is not easy to say an artist is a gangsta rapper or not a
gangsta rapper.

In that case, I would cite Tupac, who is someone who has been
vilified and accused — which I think in the United States accused
still means not guilty until proven guilty — has been accused of sev-
eral things, but on his own record, a record called "Keep Your Head
Up", which has been this year — last year was an anthem in praise
of black woman. So within each artist there are many different im-
pulses, "Some of which may be positive", and "Some of which may
be negative."

But to say that every artist because they have one record or one
incident in their life that may be negative, to brand them with an
overall stripe, I think is very dangerous.

One of the things I want to talk about today, which has not been
commented about very often in discussing this music, is music it-
self. The maker of the best known gangsta rap records, name Dr.
Dre Andre Young of Los Angeles California, former member of
NWA, now a sole artist and producer of Snoop Doggy Dogg, has not
been successful simply because he has spoken on CD disrespecting
women or gangsterism. Dr. Dre is easily one of the top record pro-
ducers in America today. His embrace of 1970's funk and expert ar-
rangements are crucial to the sales of his records.

To ignore the essential pleasure purely as a listening experience
that one takes from his music is to be ignorant of how music as
a product is consumed by those who buy it.

The music is always first, the sound of the singer or rapper's
voice is second, the lyrics, if the listener ever learns all the lyrics
besides the hook, it is usually the third element.

Gangsta rap often sells because it is musically superior to other
forms of rap music or popular music. From the viewpoint of some-
one who has been following rap since his days in Harlem, I must
say I am proud of its overall development as both an innovative re-
corded music and as a vehicle for social commentary.

That a handful of artists have sold millions of records about
black genocide — and make no mistake about it, only a handful of
artists have benefited in the millions from this violent music — does
not invalidate the art form certainly.

Moreover, to discuss the subset of rap music, gangsta rap, out-
side the forces that influence it, from the Hollywood action movies
of Joe Silver to the consumerism of the 1980's, TV shows like Dy-
nasty, to the influx of AIDS in the black community, to teenage un-
emplo5rment, to the availability of 12 millimeter machine guns and
automatic weapons that are available by trucks in any black com-
munity in the United States, to 12 years of Republican govern-
ment, to discussing rap out of this context is to rip this music out

of context and to endow its creators with the profound power they
don't believe they have.

For me, the question of gangsta rap's role in America is not a
question of the chicken or the egg. The egg in this case is the eco-
nomic and social breakdowns that have torn at our cities since at
least the riots of the 1960s and that shows few signs of really being
addressed.

The chicken is the culture of cynicism about government and
verbal rebellion that rap represents. If tomorrow every offensive
gangsta rap record was removed from our stores, our air waves and
our video shows, there would still be random violence, teenage un-
employment, teen pregnancy and drug trafficking. The only dif-
ference is that the musical backing for our youth would change.
Those conditions that frighten our Nation into congressional hear-
ings on rap would continue.

Just in conclusion, I would just like to say that one of the things
about rap that has made it appealing, both to black teens and
white teens around America, is the fact that it is rebel music and
that part — its critique and part of its appeal is that it attacks
things such as the Congress of the United States, Christianity.

One of the big selling points, if you will, for a lot of artists about
rap music is that it is anti-, anti- of most of the traditional value
of the States.

Public Enemy, part of their appeal — one of the most powerful
groups in affecting rap music — is that it embraces the nation of
Islam, and it is has been a very important part of propagating the
influence of the nation of Islam around the United States.

Many of the rappers in Los Angeles who have become very
prominent also are devotees of the nation of Islam.

Thank you very much. Madam Chairwoman.

Mrs. Collins. Thank you.

Mr. Singleton.

STATEMENT OF ERNIE SINGLETON

Mr. Singleton. Good morning. Madam Chairwoman. It is very
much an honor to be here and to be invited to speak on this issue.

To you. Madam chairwoman, and the other members of the sub-
committee, first of all I would like to identify myself. My name is
Ernie Singleton, I am the president of the Black Music Division of
MCA Records. Some of the acts on my label range from popular
R&B artists such as Bobby Brown, Gladys Knight, Patti LaBelle,
Jody Watley, New Addition, Bell Biv Devoe, and also hip hop acts,
to include the likes of Mary J. Blige, Wrecks-N-Effects, Jodeci, and
Heavy D and the Boyz, just to name a few.

The American music industry is one of the most energetic and
imaginative businesses in society, employing hundreds of thou-
sands of talented artists and musicians, as well as marketing, pro-
motion, publicity, business affairs, marketing, manufacturing, and
distribution personnel who produce recordings of remarkable diver-
sity and remarkable depth.

And while our industry has been allowed to flourish in an inno-
vative and creative environment, we do not underestimate the sig-
nificance and the importance of our social responsibilities and our
role as good corporate citizens.

Today, I am here to present to this committee my concerns, my
personal views on this issue and the overview of the positive and
important steps that the recording industry has taken in its re-
sponsibility for explicit content of sound recordings, including those
that contain explicit themes, like some of the so-called gangsta rap.

In 1985, the Recording Industry Association of America reached
an agreement with the National Parents and Teachers Association
and the PMRC, or better known as the Parents Music Resource
Center.

The agreement specified that music releases containing explicit
lyrics, including explicit depictions of violence, be identified so that
parents can make intelligent listening choices for their children.

In 1990, after communicating with parents, record companies
and retailers, we established through the RIAA a voluntary uni-
form parental advisory logo. That logo is placed on all of our re-
cordings that are considered to be containing explicit lyrics.

The standardized label was implemented to increase overall
consumer awareness of the advisory sticker and specifically to pro-
vide parents with the single standardized and easily identifiable
means of singling out records with explicit themes.

Each record company in consultation with the artist determines
which of these recordings will display that logo.

If I may digress for a moment. Madam Chairwoman, I think you
held up a CD that may not have been in accord with that, and that
may be another issue totally separate and apart from the issue of
the recording industry as a whole.

The black and white logo shown, or the parental advisory logo is
standard in size and in color. It is also standard in placement and
is affixed to the bottom right comer of an album, cassette, or CD.
It is affixed to the permanent packaging underneath the cellophane
shrink wrap.

The label measures 1 by Vi inch on cassettes and CD jewel boxes
and 1 by Vi inch on albums. Let me add that this logo is actually
printed on the CD or cassette cover and cannot be removed.

The Parental Advisory Program, supplemented by retailer co-
operation, is a positive response of the music industry and respon-
sible corporate citizens to provide useful information to parents and
guardians to assist them in deciding what their children should lis-
ten to.

While I am expressing my views as a record industry executive,
I would also like to speak as a citizen and a father of 3 children
between the ages of 16 and 23. I believe that the parental advisory
logo and for that matter, any labeling, is no substitute for respon-
sible parenting.

The morals and ethics of our society are slowlv diminishing and
that. Madam Chairwoman, is what I think needs to be addressed
and changed.

We must look at societal problems like our welfare system that
encourages dependence and not empowerment. Societal disintegra-
tion starts with factors like these, not the music.

Rap, rap music and music in general, but more specifically rap
music, is like a storm. It will not diminish until the societal woes
that these young men and women so eloquently express in their
music are attended to.

If you try to stop it, just like a storm, it will take you with it.
I think that no one here will disagree with me when I say that
families with strong parental figures, quality education, caring
communities and real jobs is what is needed. These are some of the
solutions to the problems of violence in our society.

Insuring the existence of those factors in the lives of young peo-
ple involves some tough decisions at the governmental level and
some tough decisions at the personal level. We can't simply abdi-
cate our responsibilities as parents, legislators, or citizens by sin-
gling out a few TV programs, a few movies or a few musical record-
ings.

In closing, it would be fair to assume that there are some people
in this room here today who have already made their decision to
draw a conclusion about rap music and the artist. To those people,
I ask that you open your minds and use today as an opportunity
to take a closer look at the young people who are creating this
music.

These young men and women are passionate about what they
feel. They are poetic. They are very innovative and creative in their
expression, but if nothing else, at this meeting you should be able
to come away with an awareness of the fears and frustrations that
they are so constantly expressing, that is so deeply rooted in their
spirits and in their lyrics.

How can rap continually be blamed for the increased violence in
our communities baffles me when the violence was here long before
rap music and much longer than the gangsta rap music has been
here. Rap artists verbalize their reality. They do not celebrate that
reality.

Our children, who are these rap artists, are angry and they ex-
press their anger in their Ijrrics. Many of the young men and
women who rap today are considered outsiders by the mainstream
of American society. Their reality and their world is one full of pov-
erty, violence, alcoholism, drug abuse, racism, homelessness, hope-
lessness, disrespect, just to name a few of the ills. They live in a
world that few in this room, if any, could even survive in.

I do not condone violence or the negative lyrics, but this is the
reality of our impoverished inner cities and it is the reality of the
American youth.

Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.

Mrs. Collins. Mr. Harleston.

STATEMENT OF DAVID HARLESTON

Mr. Harleston. Good morning, Madam Chairwoman. My name
is David Harleston and I am president of Rush Associated Labels,
or R.A.L., which has as its largest and most prolific division Def
Jam Recordings, Incorporated.

Def Jam recordings or Def Jam was founded in 1983 by Russell
Simmons who has been widely recognized as the individual who
brought hip hop to the cultural fore. Russell Simmons currently
serves as our chief executive officer.

R.A.L. is engaged primarily in the creation, marketing, pro-
motion, and distribution of the spectrum of music that is known as
hip hop. In 1993, hip hop music in all its forms accounted for ap-
proximately 7.8 percent of the estimated $10.2 billion of music in

the United States. Without question, hip hop has evolved into a
major contributor to the music industry.

This music and this culture have achieved a level of creative en-
ergy which justifies our corporate commitment to the genre. Hip
hop has provided an extraordinary avenue of artistic expression for
African-American youth and it has economically empowered a gen-
eration of artists, producers and others who have imported hip hop
culture and music into areas such as fashion, film, advertising,
comedy, television, and publishing.

Madam Chairwoman, I would be less than candid if I did not ac-
knowledge my concerns about this hearing. During the past year,
the hip hop community has been the subject of intense scrutiny
concerning the role of rap music in our culture. Some critics have
suggested, for example, that rap music glorifies violence, degrades
women, and erodes community values.

I do not question the sincerity of those who have expressed those
views. However, I strongly believe that those views are myopic.

Let's be clear. Like all artists, hip hop artists are Droducts of
their environment. Their environments have influenced who they
are and the kinds of music that they make. Accordingly, hip hop
artists frequently relate experiences which many find unsettling or
uncomfortable. That is precisely the point that certain artists are
trying to make.

However, it is increasingly apparent that certain opponents of
hip hop music are of the misguided view that if we do not hear
about the issues raised and addressed in the music, then those is-
sues will not exist.

In fact, one could argue that efforts to suppress hip hop artists
are efforts to ignore unpleasant realities that exist in America's
backyard. Such a view simply denies reality. Silencing the mes-
senger will not extinguish the problem.

While I am here today to discuss hip hop culture and the record-
ing industry, I hope that we can also begin a constructive conversa-
tion about the conditions to which some members of our society are
subjected, conditions which, in fact, make gangsterism appear to be
a reasonable life choice.

As a record company, Def Jam is essentially a manufacturer,
marketer, promoter, and distributor of recorded music to consum-
ers. Fundamentally, we discover, develop, and sell music. In so
doing, we work closely with artists, managers and producers, all of
whom have a direct and immediate interest in the success of a par-
ticular recording.

When we make a decision to sign an artist, that decision fully
embraces the artist's vision. Our primary inquiry is whether the
artist is authentic and distinctive. In our view, the dominant con-
cern is that an artist write and rap from an important — ^from im-
portant experiences in that artist's life. Those experiences may not
be pretty or pleasant. They need only be real.

It is for these reasons, therefore, that we do not require an artist
to adhere to proscribed rules relating to lyrical content. Rather, in
deciding whether, in our judgment, the work of a particular artist
is of sufficient merit to warrant release, we ask only whether the
work is true to the artist's vision as we understood that vision at
the time we signed the artist.

We also acknowledge the significance of lyric S3rmbolism in our
artist's work. Like all recording artists, rap artists engage in meta-
phor and imagery in order to make their points. Curiously, rap art-
ists are rarely given credit for their use of metaphor. Rather, they
are all too often held unfairly to a literal standard which is not ap-
plied to creators and performers of other forms of art.

Some critics of hip hop music have also suggested that the lyrics
will bring about the very problems they address. Some have sug-
gested, for example, that the music contributes to a preponderance
of violence and misog5my in our communities. Of course, that sug-
gests and ignores both history and reason.

Violence and sexism in the African-American community and the
United States generally clearly predate the rise in popularity of rap
music.

Moreover, tragic as it is, violence is something that many of our
urban youth must confront regularly and sexism remains a per-
nicious force throughout our society. As dimensions of our artist's
experiences, these themes will obviously and inevitably find their
way into the music.

One of our most important functions as a company is to amplify
the voices of African-American youth whose experiences have his-
torically been ignored by mainstream America. Those voices are, at
the moment, articulating bleak scenarios throughout urban Amer-
ica.

The issue, however, is not whether to suppress, regulate, restrict,
segregate, or otherwise curb the distribution of hip hop music.
Rather, the issue is whether we, as a communitv and a Nation, are
prepared to squarely address the very issues that have given rise
to the lyrics that some find so troubling.

That, Madam Chairwoman, is the challenge. Thank you.

STATEMENT OF YOLANDA «YO YO»* WHITAKER

Mrs. Collins. Yo Yo.

Ms. Whitaker. Hello, it is a pleasure to be here. Madam Chair-
woman, the subcommittee. My name is Yolanda Whitaker, I am
known as Yo Yo. I am on East West Records.

I am out of south central Los Angeles, bom and raised. I am very
involved in the music business. I have been for 5 years. Along with
that, I am involved in an organization entitled the Intelligent Black
Women's Coalition, which I have formed for many years now, 4
years, and we have 9 chapters in different States, which help boost
the self-esteem for young black teenagers. We also deal with vot-
ing, teenage pregnancy, and education.

We deal with non — this is a nonprofit organization. We do have
fund-raisers. We donate to black women, battered women shelters,
little league football teams that are brought up in the neighbor-
hoods. We donate to premature babies, mainly from Martin Luther
King Hospital, drug babies.

On behalf of the rappers, we ask, where does it end? We see and
hear violent acts every day, whether it may be through the eyes
of the media, movie producers, or businesses. There was violence
before rap and there will continue to be violence after rap.

For example, how many times do we see the Rodney King beat-
ing, the Lorena Bobbitt story, Tonya Harding, the Menendez trial?

I can go on and on, but where does it end? Violence permeates our
every day life.

I am here to help you understand that there is a thing called
context. When our lyrics are taken out of context, they take on a
whole new meaning that you interpret as violence. There is a lan-
guage difference from 20 years ago to now. Words change. We have
a totally different meaning for the language we speak.

That is why, if you don't understand, ask, and we will take the
time to explain. You take the time to listen to the whole story.

If you don't, our generation is lost. Those who block our music
and refuse to take the whole story will never understand. Saying
one is to respect our ancestors for what they have worked for is one
thing, but saying that rap causes violence is another.

People choose to point the fmger on us and censor our right to
freedom of speech, but is that constitutional?

Why is the so-called negative rap so popular? It is because nega-
tivity is what surrounds us. The true rap listeners are surrounded
by the negativity in the neighborhood and until you can help our
situation, don't criticize the way we feel.

Rap artists cannot be held accountable for why people are in jail.
These jails have been filled with our black males and females since
slavery, and yet, where does it end?

This is the time for more autonomy. This is a time for each indi-
vidual to take responsibility of their own actions. Rap cannot be
the scapegoat. If we fail as a whole to acknowledge the real prob-
lems that be face, then we will never resolve the problems. Jobs,
education, home discipline, teen pregnancy, AIDS, homelessness is
something that we all should focus on, not rap.

Being from the hood, neighborhood, I can tell you that violence
didn't start from a cassette tape that might have been popped into
a home or car stereo system. Whitney Houston sells more records
than any rapper. Why isn't that man's kids emulating her? Why is
it our fault? We are the product of America your generation cre-
ated. Don't shut us down. Hear us out.

Now, is the time to focus on real villains, not the rap artists. I
ask you. Madam Chairwoman, where does it end and when will it
end?

Thank you.

Mrs. Collins. Mr. Singleton, there are many misconceptions
about how the recording industry works, and I would like for you
to explain to the members of our committee your relationship with
the artists from the time that he or she gets a contract until a final
recording is distributed, and specifically explain who makes the
creative decisions.

In other words, who has the final say in what that recording will
contain if there are questions about a message. Mr. Singleton?

Mr. Singleton. OK, Madam Chairwoman, the process varies
from record company to record company. My relationship in dealing
with an artist and signing an artist to the label, we — if an artist
is brought in by a manager or if the artist in fact brings his own
product in, they share with us their music. They give us a sense
of their vision.

Oftentimes, there may be a demo tape in terms of their produc-
tion or their song quality or song style that they will present to us
to give you a sense of what their artistic direction is.

In giving us that artistic direction, they are not giving us the lay-
out in songs. At this present moment in working with artists on
the MCA label, artists present to us their songs or we solicit songs
from various producers and song writers.

Those songs are then submitted to the artist and artist's man-
ager, and again, I am stumbling a little bit here because I under-
stand we are talking about "gangsta rap."

Mr. Singleton. As I sit here, you make the point clear that we
do not have any "Gangsta rap on the MCA label." The artists I am
referring to are people like Patti LaBelle. In the case of Heavy D,
Heavy D goes in the studio and does his album in its entirety by
himself. He selects the material with his A&R director.

A&R people are people in the record companies who deal with
the artists, producers, song writers. A&R stands for artists and
repertoire.

In many cases, you will have an artist who will create the entire
body of work and bring it to you. There are artists who work with
producers to create that body of work and bring it to you. There
are instances where artists work with various A&R people to find
the music, songs, and production people to create the bodies of
work, so there is no one way it is done. It varies, depending on the
artists and creative people involved.

Mrs. Collins. Mr. Harleston, how is it done at your shop?

Mr. Harleston. It varies equally at Def-Jam. An artist, after
being signed, and perhaps I should back up, but we learn about our
artists through any number of sources. There is an A&R depart-
ment, as there is in most record companies, that stands for artists
and repertoire, and members of the A&R department are charged
with, among other things, visiting clubs to determine if there are
artists performing there live in whom we might have some interest.

They listen to demo tapes that are sent in, solicited and unsolic-
ited, to the company. They listen to other artists presently on the
label, who by virtue of work in the studio or elsewhere have their
ear to the ground and a sense of who might have qualities in which
we might be interested.

That artist is then presented to the chairman of the company,
Russell Simmons, who talks with, meets with, listens to the con-
cept underlying the perspective artist's work, and makes a rec-
ommendation as to whether or not the artist should be signed. The
signing process is in itself an extensive one.

It is one in which we negotiate heavily with the artist's rep-
resentatives or prospective artist's — at that point — representatives.
Those number typically two; the artist's counsel, his or her lawyer,
and the artist's manager, if the manager has yet been engaged at
that time.

The negotiation can take an3rwhere from 2 weeks to, in some
cases, 3 months. Once the negotiation is completed, the contract
has been drafted to reflect the points agreed upon in that negotia-
tion, and the artist signs on.

In its essential termination, that contract requires of the artist
the obligation that he or she deliver a prescribed number of record-

ings to us within a prescribed period of time, and in consideration
of that, we are required to pay what are considered advances
against royalty income that the artist would earn at such time as
the recordings are sold at retail.

I feel compelled to respond just briefly to a point that was made
in the prior panel. With respect to Def-Jam, never, ever does the
contract nor could the contract spell out, address, describe, define
the lyrical content of the artist's recordings. That simply never
happens, nor am I aware of it happening at any other record com-
pany.

Now, we have the artist signed, and it is time for the artist to
begin his or her work. The artist begins working with a producer.
That producer is an individual who sometimes comes with the art-
ist, if you will, when the artist is signed. The artist has already
identified an individual or a group of individuals with whom he or
she wants to work.

If the artist does not have a producer, our A&R staff makes rec-
ommendations. The artists meet with typically three, four or five,
and makes some decisions about whom they feel most comfortable
with.

That producer and that artist then retire to the studio. Songs are
written, lyrics are written, beats are created, experimented with,
felt out. And after a period of time, typically demo recordings of the
proposed album are furnished to us, the record company.

The A&R department sits down with the artist and the producer
at that time, listens to what the artist proposes to record, listens
to those demo recordings, and makes comments on those demo re-
cordings. The comments typically are directed toward the extent to
which those recordings are consistent with the artist's vision, as we
understood that vision when we signed the artist. They are not
comments or views that are directed toward the sexual imagery,
the violent imagery, specifically. They are comments directed to the
body of work in its entirety.

The fundamental question in its simplest form is, is this good
music, is this good hip hop for this artist? And by "for this artist"
I mean, as we understood what this artist's vision, dream, mission
was when we signed the artist.

Those comments are then discussed with the artist. The artist re-
turns to the studio with the producer or the corps of producers, and
continues working on the project. It is an iterative process. The art-
ist rarely disappears and returns 3 months later, we are a finished
recording. It is a process in which the artist seeks comment, not
just from the record company, but typically from his or her col-
leagues, from other producers, from time to time, journalists in
order for that artist to develop a project that he or she can be
proud of and support during the period of time the project is being
sold.

Once the project is completed and delivered to us, the ball, if you
will, moves from A&R into the marketing and promotion dimen-
sions of the company. In those dimensions, employees meet with
the artist to confirm their understanding of the artist's vision as
the artist had defined it in both the music and at the time we
signed him.

The department comes up with plans and strategies for market-
ing and promoting the record, plans and strategies which are
unique to each record. These are, as I said, discussed with the art-
ist, and a marketing plan is devised.

At that point, the record is released, presumably the marketing
plan is followed, unless we feel a need in the course of the sale of
the record to alter that plan, because it is not having either the ef-
fect or not reaching a demographic that we had anticipated, and
over a period of 3 to 6, in a very successful case in hip hop, 9 or
12 months, the record is selling. The artist is promoting it, and
when that is over we are hopeful the artist returns to the studio
to start it again.

Mrs. Collins. There seems to be a great deal of effort put into
the whole project. I was taking some notes as you went along,
about the song being written and the beats being filled out, and
whether a recording is good hip hop for the artist. You talked about
a marketing strategy being devised, and the release of the record
and you talked about the demographics to which it is to be mar-
keted, but I didn't hear you at one time say who made the final
decision about the lyrics.

Mr. Singleton. May I respond to that first?

Mrs. Collins. I want Mr. Harleston to respond to that, then I
will get back to you.

Mr. Harleston. It is a deliberative decision, and it is not a deci-
sion about the Ijn-ics, per se. Part of what I am trying to convey
and I think Mr. Singleton was conveying previously, is that this is
not an inquiry or even a process that is unidimensional. We look
at the entire body of the work. And it is not amenable to looking
at lyrics and saying, these are no good or these are good. Now let's
look at the music.

Like all other art that I am aware of, we really must look at the
body of work, the piece of art as a whole. It is a collaborative proc-
ess. There may be a comment raised by a member of the A&R de-
partment — this song doesn't seem right to me, this artist doesn't
seem comfortable with this particular beat, why don't we try some-
thing else. The artist hears it and says, "Gee, I wasn't comfortable
with it", the producer thought this — it is a collaborative process.
And it is unfortunately one simply not susceptible to the kind of
segmentation that the prior, frankly, panel suggested, and that I
have seen in written reports criticizing the way we do our work.

Mrs. Collins. Mr. Singleton?

Mr. Singleton. Madam Chairwoman, I think from record com-
pany to record company, the answer to that might be a little bit
different. At MCA, maybe over the last — since we began putting
the parental advisory label on records, we began to realize that in
order to avoid slippage in not knowing when a record merits a
sticker versus when it didn't, that we had to redefine how we func-
tioned internally within the record company. So there is a commit-
tee of people, that includes even our Business Affairs Department,
that reviews the lyrics once the songs are done and recorded and
completed, and then the artist or producers turn in those songs, the
tapes, as well as the Ijnncs.

And we review those lyrics, and in reviewing those lyrics, that
is what helps us to make the determination as to whether or not

the parental advisory logo should be put on the record. And once
that decision is made, we converse then with the artist and the art-
ist's manager to make them aware that the parental advisory stick-
er will be going on the record, and quite often artists have a tend-
ency to hit the ceiling because that label is being put on the record
because retailers have a different reaction and — some retailers
have a different response as to whether a record that has the PA
logo, the parental advisory logo or not.

So at MCA, we actually review the lyrics of every album that is
turned in.

Mrs. Collins. This is for both you and Mr. Harleston.

Do you ever say, "There is a standard here and there are some
limits beyond which we will not go?" Do you ever get to that point
if there is something written that you find just — that you just don't
think should be recorded, words or deeds being portrayed that you
just don't think should be recorded, do you ever say, "Well, we just
can't do that?"

Mr. Singleton. In our case, yes. There are points where we will
see or feel that the lyrics or the song doesn't work or it doesn't com-
plement what we choose to put out as a company, and we would
make the decision or have a discussion with the artist. And often-
times the artist will be willing to go in and make adjustments
those songs.

Mrs. Collins. Mr. Harleston?

Mr. Harleston. We have certainly come across songs we found
just artistically deficient, and we have refused to release songs on
that basis, and indeed, as most record companies, don't release
records that we don't like.

Mrs. Collins. If the lyrics are extremely offensive to the vast
majority of people who might be listening to them, the vast major-
ity, not just a small segmented group or those that buy the record-
ings, but extremely offensive to most people in our society, would
you then say that you have a standard which you will not go be-
yond?

Mr. Harleston. I guess I can only speak on our practice to date,
and the cases or matters that have come before us in terms of
songs or recordings. We have not made that judgment. Whether
that would happen in the future, whether one could conceive of or
concoct lyrics, songs that would cause us to make that judgment,
I just don't know.

Mrs. Collins. In your testimony, Mr. Harleston, you state that
at Def-Jam recordings, when you make a decision to sign an artist,
your dominant concern is that the artist write and rap from impor-
tant experiences in that artist's life. You continue to say that those
experiences may not be pretty or pleasant but they need to be real.

Yet, in a recent Wall Street Journal article that we have been
fanning around up here, it talks about this young lady. Boss,
Lichelle, which I understand is her name, and the article entitled,
"How a Nice Middle-Class Girl Evolved Into a Gangsta Rapper."
And in this article, she describes how she was not able to get a re-
cording contract until she started doing gangsta rap.

Now, how is it that a company who prides itself on promoting au-
thentic voices could have such an artist? As I understand it, she
is on your label. Is that right?

Mr. Harleston. Yes, Boss is on D.J. West.

Mrs. Collins. So how could this have happened?

Mr. Harleston. First, if I could address the factual inaccuracies
both in that article and in the prior panel.

Mrs. Collins. OK.

Mr. Harleston. When Boss was signed to us. Boss was Boss.
That is to say, Boss is what she is now.

Mrs. Collins. So you didn't change her?

Mr. Harleston. Absolutely not. As a factual matter, we have
never even attempted to do that with any artist. I suspect every
other record company is the same.

Lichelle, professionally known as Boss, is an extremely exciting
artist who made the decision when we became aware of her to cre-
ate a character, to create a persona that she thought reflected a
sentiment, a theme, a feeling among a whole host of women in the
hip-hop community, and men, and that was of a hard-core female.

And this persona, and I encourage those who have made ref-
erence to Boss and who have read that article to listen to the entire
Boss album to get a full understanding of the dimensions of that
persona. Boss, the character, as opposed to Lichelle the individual,
and we should note that characters in music, personas in music are
nothing unique to hip hop. I was thinking about other artists like
Cindy Lauper, David Bowie when he adopted the Ziggy Stardust
persona, and in many respects Madonna, for some reason I think
we are comfortable distinguishing between the on stage or perform-
ance personas of those artists and their off stage private personas.

In hip hop, people have a little more of a tough time doing that.
I am not quite sure why.

But if you listen to the entire album and get a full sense of what
this persona is, you understand that this is a frustrated, angry,
and frankly a little bit crazy person, member of the hard-core hip-
hop community. She is very experienced sexually, she has been in-
volved with drugs, the persona, now, not the individual, Lichelle.

And really she paints a movie-like picture of the individual, the
character, and the situations in which she finds herself. I think it
is very important to understand, and in my statement you recall
I made reference to the inability of a number of listeners to accord
hip-hop artists credit for the kinds of uses of metaphors and im-
agery and other techniques that in other literary and artistic con-
texts are presumed, frankly, with respect the artist concerned.

But when viewed in that context, the character. Boss, is very
real. And that is the story.

Mrs. Collins. In The Wall Street Journal article, Yo Yo, Boss
seems to say — and this is a direct quote, she says, "I am a
businessperson, I know what I am doing, I know how to make it
in this business." While there may be some authentic gangsta rap-
pers out there, do you believe that a large number of the people
who do this are just smart business people who just want to sell
their music?

Ms. Whitaker. I am pretty sure you probably do have outsiders
looking in saying, well, what is selling right now, is rap — rap is
what they are listening to and rap is what is hot. Some young
teens do feel like the only way out is rap, out of the neighborhood,

out of — ^trying to survive. Yes, I do agree that some people feel like
that. In all cases, that is not true.
Mrs. Collins. Would you say-

Ms. Whitaker. You have true artists

Mrs. Collins. Go ahead.

Ms. Whitaker. You have true artists and you have artists who
feel what they say. I am a true artist. I feel what I say. I talk
about different issues, issues that my mother might not agree with.
I speak words that my mother may not agree with. I say things
that mavbe only the kids I grew up with, the kids I go to school
with ana the kids I hang out with might be able to understand.

My mother might not be able to understand everything that I
identify with. The way I dress, the way I do my hair, the lipstick
1 wear, but years ago in my mother's generation, her mother
couldn't understand.

Mrs. Collins. That is certainly true, because I don't understand
the things that my son did, and my mother didn't understand the
things I did, but somewhere along the line we had a meeting of the
minds. I am sure that is going to happen in all cases as each gen-
eration grows into an older generation.

Can you tell me whether large numbers of people who get into
this business do so simply to make the money or because they have
a true feeling as you do about what they want to say in their re-
cordings.

Ms. Whitaker. I couldn't answer that question directly because
I don't know why each individual chose to become an entertainer
in the music business, rap business.

Mrs. Collins. In the rap business?

Ms. Whitaker. I cannot answer the question why each individ-
ual chose to be a rapper. I chose to be a rapper because it was
something that I felt like I wanted to get into, I was talented in
all areas as well as in poetry, not only into creating a culture with
my music.

Mrs. Collins. Let me ask you this question. In U.S.A. Today in
October, they had an article called 'Talking Tough", and I know
you have seen this already, and they are talking about the "Hip-
Hop Culture and Female Rappers Go With the Gangsta Flow", that
is the title of the article.

But it says in here, Yo Yo turns down her show if young kids
are there. She feels the trend has gone too far and plans to change
her image, and it quotes you as saying, "I am so disappointed with
the record companies, now they are only looking for street rappers,
no diversity."

Is that a true statement? If so, why did you make the statement
and in what context did you make it?

Ms. Whitaker. That statement might have been took out of con-
text. I didn't say it like it is written up in the article. What I said
was, when I perform in front of kids, I do censor my rap, when I
know there are kids in the audience, I tend to change words be-
cause I know kids are out there listening to my music. My music
has a sticker on it that says explicit l3rrics on the cover of my
music.

When children do come out to hear my music, or some public
event where everyone is coming out or it is a free event, I tend to

change my music only for the safety of the kids, because it is pub-
lic, it is free, and the parents are with their kids, and I know that
it is a kid event. That is like me going to Disneyland, or going out
in the public speaking to kids and using profane words.

I don't know how 12-year old kids are walking into stores and
buying $17.99 tapes and CD's. I don't understand how it is happen-
ing.

Mrs. Collins. I believe it was Mr. Singleton — and I put the testi-
mony down — who talked about the labeling. Which one of you
talked about the labeling requirements?

Yes, Mr. Singleton, you talked about the labeling requirements
and about having met with the parents. Is the advisory you have
on here something agreed to by the PTA and others?

Mr. Singleton. Yes, and PMRC.

Mrs. Collins. And there was something in the testimony that I
pulled out and circled that said that most of the time, as I under-
stand it, when these CD's and cassettes are being purchased, the
parents aren't buying them. The kids are the ones who go to the
record stores and buy them. So even though there is an advisory
on there, the kids aren't likely to pay any attention to it.

As a matter of fact, it would seem to me almost an incentive for
an inquisitive kid to want to buy it to see what the thing says. The
burden should be placed on the parent, which is where it should
be, no doubt about that, that is where it should be. But, I just won-
der how effective you think this advisory is and whether you think
more can be done?

You will recall the first panel said that mere labeling was not
enough. Tell me what you think about that, any of you sitting at
the table.

Mr. Singleton. I think there is a need for more education if the
labeling is being ignored — education of the retailers and a lot of are
retailers doing a lot about it. A lot of retailers already do things
to separate the music and make it where — some of them have rules
that if you are not 18 or older, you can't buy the music.

In various communities, there are different postures that people
take on the — if I may read it, there is a piece here, the National
Association of Recording — record merchandisers, which is a major
organization of retailers around the country, in America, and in
reference to that same thing, it makes reference here, I will just
read a portion of this, it says, "Every store which tries hard to
work with local communities finds the message is mixed. Some
stores which have implemented the 18-to-buy policies at the urging
of the community find after a period of months that they received
as much feedback from parents who are angry that they had to ac-
company the teenager to buy a piece of music as they receive sup-
port from parents who were angry about a piece of music a teen-
ager had bought unchaperoned."

So there are mixed feelings and ways various retailers are han-
dling it. And to respond to what Don and Dr. Tucker and Mr.
Madison was referring to, I think that maybe there is a need — and
I feel these hearings are bringing that about as well — a need for
more communication, more awareness, and if there are deficiencies
in the system, let's identify what they are and find ways to adjust
or correct that.

But more importantly, it is critical that we find ways to redefine
upgrading our moral standards. I think we need to figure out why
they are saying what they are saying. There is anger, there is rage,
there is some lack of communication, and it is not unusual for peo-
ple that are in their early 20's to be defiant, to feel like they can
rule and conquer all. It comes with youth, it comes with the inexpe-
rience of being a young adult as opposed to being a seasoned and
experienced adult. Only after you have lived can you relate to the
experience of an adult.

But there are a lot of the young artists who are very mature, and
if you listen to what they are saying and how they are sa3dng it,
they are very eloquent, they are very artful, their statements are
very profound. We seem to harp on the fact that it is vulgar and
obscene. They live in a vulgar and obscene environment. Teen preg-
nancies — ^babies having babies is profane.

So we need to address, I think, some of the societal problems to
correct the issue that our children are expressing, which emanates
from the environment in which they live, and it is also the reason
why not just black kids but white kids in record numbers buy the
music, because they relate to this reality.

And I think it was — I am trying to recall the gentleman's name
who made the comment that rap music is the CNN of the inner
city — Chuck D of Public Enemy — and it is that.

Mr. George. Madam Chairwoman, can I address the question?

My problem with further regulation and stickering of records
based on even an individual song that is within any artist's rep-
ertoire, with any 12 songs, there may be one song that could be ob-
jectionable to someone. Public Enemy, which is a group most peo-
ple seem to hold up as a group that has strong messages, they have
been attacked on two of their albums for misogjmy on certain cuts.

If you label them that kids under 18 can't buy a Public Enemy
album, you are taking the other 10 songs talking about the Black
Panthers or Louis Farrakhan, which are all valid artistic area, and
you are saying a whole group of people who have already been
turned on to the ideas of Public Enemy can no longer have access
to that material.

I am just worried when we get into this whole idea of stickering
or additional restrictions, we are restricting an artist who may
have 10 messages on one album and one may be objectionable.
That is what I am very — it is more complex than saying sticker
and restrict. I am very concerned about that.

Mr. Harleston. If I could just make one additional comment. In
my view, labeling is really — or the current labeling practice is real-
ly as effective as parents choose to make it. I fully acknowledge the
difficulty of raising children, particularly in urban America, young
African-American children.

It is tough out there. But that difficulty does in no way diminish
the responsibilities that attach to parenting. It means having, I
think, discussions with kids and families about what it is they are
listening to and indeed why it is they are listening to it. I think
not only does that give a parent greater insight as to what is in
that child's mind but also insight into the larger issues with which
that parent may not be familiar, may not have as great an under-
standing as he or she could.

Mrs. Collins. Mr, Singleton, in your testimony you state that
MCA Records doesn't underestimate the significance and impor-
tance of social responsibility in your role as a good corporate citi-
zen. Is it socially responsible and good corporate citizenry to make
millions of dollars off of sexually explicit or graphically violent
lyrics that are sometimes used in gangsta rap?

Either of you, or anybody at the table.

Mr. Singleton. All fairness, I would prefer passing that on to
someone else. We do not have any gangsta rap music on the MCA
label.

Mrs. Collins. Mr. Harleston?

Mr. Harleston. The question I think presumes the kind of al-
most oversimplified analysis or definition, rather, of gangsta rap or
of the issue of the problem. Clearly as a company we feel a sense
of social responsibility.

We feel that responsibility to our community's African-Ameri-
cans, and we feel that responsibility to the very individuals who
are raising the issues that we are discussing today. In many re-
spects, and I think everyone would acknowledge that the purpose
of what has been called gangsta rap here today has been served,
because we are talking about it, and it is upsetting people. I don't
think the response is making a lot of sense, because the response
is, let's stop the expression or the definition or the articulation of
the problem, rather than what I think it should be, which is let's
address the problem, let's address the problems in education, let's
address the problems in unemplojrment, let's address the problems
that are plaguing and have plagued our community.

Larger than that is my view that this is not a debate or discus-
sion over who owns the civil rights movement. I think everyone at
this table both understands and recognizes how we at this table
have benefitted from a profoundly important program, the most
profoundly important movement in this country.

What is curious is that gangsta rappers, as they have been char-
acterized here today, are telling us that the work is not done.
Gangsta rappers, as they have been described here today, are tell-
ing us we have got to keep moving, because the demands that we
imposed on this country and this government in the 1960s have not
been met, and if we think that the struggle or the fight is over, we
are kidding ourselves.

And that message is profoundly important. So certainly we feel
a sense of social responsibility. We feel it to the community which
includes the very kids who are making us aware of what is going
on in this music.

Mr. George. Madam Chairwoman, I would like to just slightly
address, again, since I am the only sort of music critic here, ad-
dress the question of music and artistry. I for one — I found the
Snoop Doggy Dogg album cover offensive. I have the CD in my of-
fice flipped over so I see Snoop's face and not the cartoon. There
are overall things that are objectionable. At the same time, there
are expressions of feeling, expressions of emotion that is are very
much in touch with the feelings of young America.

I would say, cite, for example, in the last year, there has been
at least three or four, maybe even five videos that have been made
by artists associated with gangsta rap that are funerals as the cen-

terpiece of their videos. The reason they had funerals in the center-
piece of their videos is that the songs deal in violent imagery but
they are about the end product of that violence.

Ice Cube has a song that talks about violence specifically, talks
about death in the black community specifically, but the context of
that discussion is that it shows the end point of death and the kind
of sadness with a loss the gangsta rappers feel.

A lot of this music talks about people who have gone, passed,
died. From other records, not necessarily gangsta rap, such as the
record — "Reminisce" by T. L. Smooth, that also deals with the idea
of death, of loss. Of a lot of stuff at that goes under the banner of
gangsta rap, because it may have curse words or explicit violence,
the context of the discussion is about death itself and about the im-
pact of death on the artist describing it.

So again, I must say when we discuss these records, we must
make sure we are putting them in the proper context.

Mrs. Collins. Well, Mr. Cornelius made a distinction between
hard-core and gangsta rap. Do you make that same distinction?

Mr. George. I don't know if you can totally use the phrase hard-
core. I tend to associate hard-core — ^this is a regional discussion to
some degree, in gangsta rap as we know it and discuss it, tends
to be a phenomenon of Los Angeles, Calif.

There are other branches of it, but the majority of the artists are
from Los Angeles, and I think the reason gangsta rap came out of
Los Angeles has to do with the particular conditions of that city.
The gang culture there has been there for 20 years or so. It is
much more intense.

The idea of the drive-by shooting, which has become part of our
lexicon in this country, is something that is foreign to New York,
foreign to Philadelphia, foreign to DC. It is very much a product
of that environment. So part of this discussion of gangsta rap has
to focus in on the particulars of Los Angeles, south central.

Ms. Whitaker. I was saying, being from Los Angeles and going
over to the East Coast, there is a difference, they are more cul-
turally motivated than the West Coast, I feel. I feel the West Coast
are so involved with gangs, drugs, it is like they are locked into a
cave. It is like they are shelled in. You know when you are in the
neighborhood of the young gang bangers, or just the black neigh-
borhood. You know when you are in the hood, and you know when
you are out of the hood. And it is like that everywhere you go.

I think that West Coast rappers tend to be more hard-core,
which you would call it, because reality of Los Angeles or the West
Coast is so hard. We can't run from the problem that surrounds us.
If we talk about the situations that may be detrimental to some-
one's ears, they may feel, or may be harmful to a child, you may
feel, it is reality, and kids are listening to it because they see it,
and they don't see it from your eyes, like you see it.

They see it from looking at it. They see it from across the street,
they see it from their mother, using drugs. They see it from bums
laying on the comer. They see it from the tore-up neighborhoods
and drive-by shootings.

So it is not as harsh as you make it seem. It is reality for us.
These words are not as intimidating to me as they are to you, al-
though I am a feminist and although I will not and will never let

anyone call me a "bitch" or a "ho." I am not offended when the
word is used, because it has become a slang word in the neighbor-
hood. That is not as intimidating as my mother may take it or
someone else may take it.

Mr. George. Madam Chairwoman, I want to continue to put this
in a context. We haven't really done that totally. Gangsta rap as
we know it as a genre of music, has its roots in the mid-1980's.
There are a couple artists you might cite, particularly Ice T, who
made albums in the 1980's.

One of the things very clear about the evolution of this music is
that rap music got more intense and violent when crack cocaine be-
came one of the leading forces of economics in the black commu-
nity. You can almost look at the indices of gangsta rap being cre-
ated, particularly 1989, 1988, when Dr. Dre, Ice Cube, et cetera
came out of.

Much of the material deals with crack cocaine, especially that pe-
riod. The amount of violence in the black community in cities like
DC, for example, New York City, L.A., all escalated with the intro-
duction of crack cocaine. The gangs who had so often been in L.A.
for years and years in the black community, became much more
dangerous, violent, in fact, became national concerns, in the sense
that when crack cocaine became a viable tool for the expansion of
their criminal enterprises.

Gangsta rap is very much a reflection of this new environment
that was created by crack cocaine. You can look — gangsta rap as
we describe it and as we have discussed, from 1989 or 1988 to
now — ^before that there were always records that were violent, like
the message in 1984 that dealt with social reality. But the inten-
sity of violence in rap music is directly related to the intensity of
violence in the black community.

If I had the time I could make a chart that would show you ex-
actly the amount of violence, the incarceration of young black men,
and the degree, the number of gangsta rap records beginning to be
created.

Mrs. Collins. That is interesting. You said, if you had time you
could do that. I would like to ask you to make such a chart and
send it to the subcommittee, because I would like to see the cor-
relations that you have there.

Mr. George. I will work on that when I get back to New York.

Mrs. Collins. Thank you very much. I am kind of stuck on this
question, so I am going to keep on asking it for a little bit, anyway.

Mr. Singleton, you state the morals and ethics of our society are
diminishing, and we have to look at societal problems, something
the Congress doing right now, and you further state that societal
integration starts with factors like these and not with music.

But now the question is, are you seriously suggesting that the
vulgar lyrics in gangsta rap or whatever you want to call it, plays
no part at all in the further disintegration of morals and ethics our
society?

Somebody in the first panel mentioned the chicken and the egg
issue. What is your response to that?

Mr. Singleton. I am not saying it doesn't have any bearings on
the problems in our society, but it appears as though a finger is

being pointed at rap music as being the problem, when we are see-
ing more the effects of a much broader problem. It is almost like
in the days of segregation. I didn't agree with the fact that we had
to drink from the colored-only water fountains, but that wasn't the
problem. That was a little bit of a much bigger problem.

When Rosa Parks had to sit in the back of the bus, I am sure
she didn't agree with that, as none of us agreed with it. In fact it
didn't matter to me whether I sit in the back of the bus or not, just
don't make me move once I sit down. But that wasn't the problem,
where we sat. It was more a symptom of a much bigger problem.

All I am saying, Congress woman, is that there is a much bigger
problem and rap is being made the scapegoat of something that is
much, much broader than the rap artists. In the spirit of fairness,
the record industry and the record companies are being blamed and
pointed fingers at for something that our children created? Major
record companies didn't create this music.

Mrs. Collins. Did they exploit it?

Mr. Singleton. They didn't exploit it either. Madam Chair-
woman. Major record companies and retailers were avoiding this
music for a long time. This music took over a major, major share
of the marketplace.

And again, I sit here before you, it was an honor because you
asked, as it is an honor to have so many Representatives, African-
American Representatives in Congress. There is no Congress per-
son that would ask me to do anything that I wouldn't do in terms
of moral responsibility and our commitment of what we need to do.
Whether I was working for MCA or working for no one, I would be
here, because I understand the call, and I understand the need to
address the issue.

But the point I am trying to make here is that if we are going
to point fingers, we really need to stop and hopefully if nothing else
happens, as I said earlier, let's identify the real problems. Let's not
put a Band-Aid on what appears to be broke.

The problem is much bigger than — and everybody here is saying
it, even the people who spoke, the other panel who spoke, they
made the same references in terms of what is going on in our inner
cities. It is not an easy problem to solve.

I can't sit here and act like I am so intelligent as to what goes
on in Congress and government to legislate, and tell you, Congress-
woman, or the Senate or the government how to correct these prob-
lems. All I am saying is, please don't point fingers at — ^we go out
of our way to make our artists be community sensitive. One of the
fundamental things we tell an artist is, if you are not going to give
back to the community, we are not even interested. We are not
even interested.

It is imperative that the artists understand they have got to give
back to the community, that it is so important, that our children
are given hope, our education system seems to be failed. So yes, I
am saying a lot of things. We have a welfare system that pro-
motes — that a woman — ^that there is no man in the household, for
a woman to be on welfare.

So it is encouraging a family to be raised, whether it is a boy-
friend or whatever kind of spouse that is living with the woman,

women are encouraged to not have a man present, so the children
therefore do not have a manly figure there to be raised.

I am number 9 of 13 children. My mother and father fathered all
13 of us. I don't relate to that world of children being bom and
raised without both parents being present or without parental di-
rection or guidance. Again, we have an inadequate system in our
welfare system that opens the door.

We talk about the crack problem that exists. What about the
crack mothers and fathers of the last 20 years and where are their
children and what are they doing? Some of our problems are much,
much, much bigger than any song you hear from Tupac Shakur or
Snoop Doggy Dogg. The graphics of the lyrics and the graphicness
of the packaging is a part of a problem that is a lot, lot bigger.

I have 3 children, a 16-year-old honor student, very athletic in
sports. I have a 22-year-old daughter at Xavier University in New
Orleans and a 22-year-old son in New Orleans. I have a stake here.
But my children, Congresswoman, are your children.

When we as a society accept our children and not shun the re-
sponsibility of another's children — when I see people going into a
parking lot because of somebody taking their car or whatever the
term is, a car banging, that concerns me, that affects my commu-
nity as well. These problems are so broad based, they affect our
real estate, they affect our community, they affect our economic
base.

I think Congresswoman Waters is a prime example that I see as
a role model that I know, she is one of the few politicians, and this
is nothing against any other politician, but she is one of the few
politicians that I know the rap community adores and respects be-
cause she gets in the trenches with them. There is a sensitivity
level there or a relatability that I think brings about a trust that,
you know, I love Jesse and — there are so many rappers I love, and
I hear different things.

It is important that those of us who are leaders begin to have
dialogue with the Yo Yo's of the world or the Ice Ts or the Ice
Cubes. Let's figure out what is wrong, why are they sa5dng what
they are saying?

Mr. George. Madam Chairwoman, I would like to add something
else. I think one of the things that wasn't done earlier that we need
to do is discuss the difference between what MCA records is and
what Def-Jam records is in relation to the overall development of
rap music. That is the rap music from its earliest roots in New
York City in the early 1980's was the music made a independent
labels, put out by independent labels, mostly initially black-owned.
Sylvia Robinson, a recording artist, Koshidya Hill records out of
New Jersey.

For most of rap's history up until 1987 or so, rap music was to-
tally an independent product. They were all independent entities
not involved with major corporate structures.

In 1987 or so, I believe, Russell Simmons and Def-Jam made a
deal with CBS Records for distribution. In the wake of that deal,
a number of other independent labels such as Tommy Boy, all inde-
pendent labels, made deals for distribution of the product.

But the actual product itself came through independent labels.
To this day, now in 1994, Def-Jam basically is an autonomous orga-

nization that makes the records it wants to make. Tommy Boy does
likewise, and they have a deal with Warner Brothers. These inde-
pendently owned companies are basically the lifeblood of rap music.
The major labels only in the last few years have signed rap artists
directly to their labels.

To this day, a lot of the records that are being objected about,
such as things made by 2 Live Crew, records made by Ice Cube,
Ice T, now most of MWA's products, are independent labels still.
These labels are not affiliated with major corporations.

I just don't want anyone to get the feeling that — I get the subtext
that is there is a cabal of rich white men, sitting in big towers on
sixth avenue, deciding that we should put these records out. That
is not how rap music works. It works by entrepreneurs, mostly
black, make the records for an audience, mostly black, and now the
music has crossed over to whites, to some degree, but it is still very
much a black-created, black-directed, black-targeted product.

Uptown Records is owned by a young man named Andre Harrel,
an ex-rapper himself, which is distributed by MCA, but Andre is
fully aware and in control of the product that comes out.

So I just want to put it in context that this music is very much
a product of our community, very much a product of our young
business community, and I guess a subset of that discussion is that
in the last 10 years — I started in the record business as a writer
in really 1981, it was my first real job. I am a product of rap music
in the sense that my career as a writer has been elevated and in-
formed by the development of this music.

I can parallel my career and my development as a writer by my
ability to write about rap music at a point when no one wanted to
write about it 10 years ago. And most of the people I know who
are my friends were all young men in New York City in the late
1970's, early 1980's, trying to find our way into the business, and
rap music has funneled out, and we have done well and the people
who came up behind us have done well.

There is an industry that did not exist prior to rap music's cre-
ation, that was a point of entry into a business that was locked out
for black people. There are so many black college graduates, so
many 25- to 30-year-old black men and women employed in the
record industry in a wide range of activities because of this music.

I just think we need to understand the role of rap music both as
an economic force within the black community, as an employment
source, and as a cultural source. Rap is a multifaceted environ-
ment, and gangsta rap as we know it, is but one factor in an over-
all tapestry of music. So let's put that in context.

Thank you very much.

Ms. Whitaker. I would like to add, if I can, there are many
forms of rap music. There is not just gangsta rap, hard-core rap.
There are many forms of rap. Fresh Prince of Belair is a rapper,
an artist now on TV, what is the name of the show? Fresh Prince
of Belair.

I wonder, why does the bad images or the images that we say,
or you say, not me, you say are bad images, so popular? Why is
Snoop Doggy Dogg going out in a day and selling 3 million albums?
Why are those just the ones that you point the finger at. Tupac,
these guys are selling millions of albums. They are the requests.

People are not going out on the street comers passing these
tapes out sa3dng they are free. People are going to stores and pur-
chasing these tapes.

People want to hear this music. I don't understand how the dis-
cussion becomes so — I understand how the discussion becomes so
big, because parents are now pa3dng attention to what their kids
are listening to, and wondering why they are listening to this
music. But you have to take a look around and take a look at what
these kids feel.

They go out and buy the music because they feel for this type
of music. If I don't feel — I don't feel for rock and roll, and I don't
go purchase rock and roll. I don't feel for certain types of music,
and I don't purchase certain music. If certain music offends me, I
don't purchase it, I don't listen to it, and if I choose not to buy it,
that is my choice.

People go out and they purchase this music. They choose to listen
to this music. How can you say, I don't want you to listen to that
music when they choose to listen to this music? I think parents
need to start disciplining their children, being more involved in
home activities.

There are too many single parents. There are not enough home
morals for these kids. That is why you have so many 12-year olds
listening to rap tapes. If your child can get ahold of a rap tape, can
he get ahold of a porno movie, question turn on HBO and see what
he wants. He can get ahold of Playboy Magazine.

When you attack rap, you need to attack every situation, because
rap is not the key factor here. And the lyrics are the key factors
here.

Mrs. Collins. In this Congress, there is a tremendous discussion
going on now about these issues. You mentioned that it is not just
rap, that when they turn on television, there is violence, et cetera.
There is a tremendous discussion going on in this committee, not
in this subcommittee but in this Committee of Energy and Com-
merce about the violence that is on television and cable. That is
going on right now.

The Congress has a responsibility. When there are tremendous
issues that are of concern to the public, we must take a look at
those issues. I said in my opening statement that I am not seeking
to do doing anj^hing about First Amendment rights. I don't believe
you can legislate morality. I think it is something that has to come
from within, whether it comes from within the home, the church,
or wherever it is, but it has to come from within. If there is any-
thing we hope to do, it is to raise the consciousness. So far as the
music is concerned, there is nothing I see wrong with "the music",
per se, with the beat.

The problem that many people have, which is part of the subject
of this hearing, is that the lyrics are offensive to many people.
Now, whether or not you in the industry find it

Ms. Whitaker. Who are they offending? Who is putting the tape
in the tape cassette and listening to it?

Mrs. Collins. The children — the parents are the ones who are
beginning to complain. That is why we have to find out what is
going on here.

There is a whole industry that is talking about these matters,
and these are matters that come before everyone. This has to be
looked at from every point of view that is involved here.

So the industry, of course, is going to say, we are doing nothing
wrong. I am not here to choose whether you are right or wrong.
Frankly, I don't really see the difference. As long as a parent wants
his child to listen to this music, that is a parent's responsibility.
As long as a parent gives a child "X" number of dollars for allow-
ance and they can spend that money any way they want to, that
is OK by me. But it is those large numbers of parents who say we
don't want our children hearing this, we don't want our children
watching television and seeing all these kinds of things, we want
better labeling, we want certain things taken off the air. Those are
the things that come before government.

I am not one to talk about labeling in any real sense. I asked the
question because I wanted to know. Is this label sufficient?

What do you think about it? You who are in the industry, I am
trying to get your assessment, do you think this is adequate or
don't you?

One member of your industry has said it is adequate. Another
has said it is not adequate and that there are other things that can
be done. Someone suggested you might put an **X" on there the way
you do with movies. Somebody mentioned something about the
FCC. There are all kinds of remedies and one remedy is to do noth-
ing. We all understand that.

But we are about the business of finding out what is going on.
Someone stated that everyone is involved in rearing children. We
all know the old African statement that it takes everyone in the
village to raise a child. I believe that. But we are about the busi-
ness of finding out what is going on here. We aren't about the busi-
ness of criticizing anybody. Everybody has the right to make a liv-
ing. But we also have a right to know what they are doing. That
is what we are trying to find out here and that is what we are
going to find out here.

Mr. George, on the one hand, you say gangsta rap popularizes
the use of guns and then you say that these records have no influ-
ence on our children. You say, gangsta rap has played the same
role of popularizing guns in American mainstream entertainment
as movies.

How can you reconcile these positions? They are opposed, it
seems to me.

Mr. George. Well, I don't see how I can criticize and condemn
totally, let's say. Dr. Dre for having a gun in a video, when I can
go on the subways of New York City and see a poster for Steven
Seagal's movie which opens up today where he has a loaded auto-
matic weapon prominently in his hand, like this.

So I am just saying in terms of context of American society, to
say that this Tupac or Dr. Dre has more impact than Steven
Seagal or Arnold Schwarzenegger, I cannot say that. I do not think
that argument can be made, precisely because Steven Seagal and
Arnold Schwarzenegger have the access of giant billboards, as well
as commercials, as well as movies, as well as TV talk shows to go
on and promote their product.

When a 19-year-old-black guy who makes a record gets his video
maybe on a couple of video stations and his record may get played
on radio, when you look at the level of impact, I can't — that is why
I say, they may have the same message, but the impact is very dif-
ferent and much wider.

I would — just to buttress to follow up on that to say that Dr. Dre
or any artist who may have a gun in their video or talk about guns,
has more impact than watching — I am not trjdng to get into an at-
tack on Holl5rwood, but I will use Steven Seagal again.

When Tupac did a movie called Juice, his poster had a gun in
it initially, the character he played in the movie. Requests by the
film company, someone, they took the gun out of his hands in the
poster. Yet, that same couple of weeks, there was Arnold
Schwarzenegger, I always go back to that movie, The Last Action
Hero, where he had a desert ego, which is a very lethal automatic
weapon, handgun, which has become very popular in the streets of
America.

It was very prominent in his poster. He is like this, with a little
kid in his hand in the poster.

How is Tupac Skakur doing the same thing or talking about that
weapon in passing in a rap record more painful or more impactful
than Arnold Schwarzenegger doing that in his movie screens? I
don't think that Tupac has more influence than Arnold
Schwarzenegger.

Mrs. Collins. I have been advised, and this is for Mr. Singleton
or Mr. Harleston, that many radio stations won't play some of the
gangsta rap on their stations. So there would seem to me to be
some kind of split in the industry, and how do you respond to those
critics who happen to be in your industry? And I say "critics" be-
cause of the fact that they won't play the music.

Mr. Harleston and then Mr. Singleton.

Mr. Harleston. Thank you.

It was not in my statement.

Mrs. Collins. I didn't say it was in a statement. It has come to
my attention.

Mr. Harleston. Oh, OK. But I appreciate your coming to me be-
cause I do have some thoughts and comments on that.

When there was a flurry of press releases from a variety of radio
stations in December and November, I was really somewhat
stumped. These releases said in varying terms: No longer will we
play songs that contain profanity, that make references to drugs or
narcotics or, in some cases, that contain derogatory references to
women or some combination thereof from these various statements.

And I and other members of our industry, as I said, were some-
what stumped because to our minds, this represented anything but
a departure from the policy at urban radio, which is the radio for-
mat at which much, if not most of black music and hip hop music
is played, although chirp and contemporary hit/urban radio is in-
creasingly important to us.

Now, why do I say that and how do I know that?

When we release a single, and this issue was touched upon brief-
ly in your examination of Mr. Cornelius, when we release a single,
it is very clear to us what radio will play and what radio will not

play, and it has been for years. It is clear that radio will not play
a song if it contains profanity.

It is clear that radio will not play a song if it contains an explicit
reference to a drug or a narcotic. What then happens?

What happens is that when we make a decision to release a
record to radio and commercially as well, we edit that song. So to
create the radio edit that you had questioned Mr. Cornelius about,
we delete from the song those words which radio would not — would
prevent radio from playing the records, words which have pre-
vented radio from pla5dng the record for a long, long time.

So as I said, we were stumped, and I really think it is important
to clarify the state of radio, radio in America. This is not a new —
a departure from historical policy. This is not a stand that we see
radio taking, frankly.

The same standards which have broadcast standards, which have
applied at radio prior to last fall apply now. And our editing is no
different from that which it was prior to the press releases in the
late fall.

Mr. Singleton. There is a little bit of ambiguity to that synop-
sis. Madam Chairwoman. Radio programmers play what they want
to play. Many radio programmers make their own edits to music
that they want to play.

We have a record that was put on the MCA label, a rap record,
by a rap group out of Chicago called J. Jees, the name of the song
was "Put Down the Guns." And this song, this video is depicting
the many incidents that occur and exist in our communities, in our
inner cities. And the whole message of the song and the whole di-
rection of the video is burning guns, putting guns in a pile and at
the end of the video, all the guns are burnt up. Radio stations, by
and large, would not play this record.

So there is a little bit of ambiguity in terms of what they will
play, what they won't play, what is in the record doesn't really
seem to make a big difference. Some stations will. Some won't. It
doesn't have to be a rap record, by the way. That is not something
that is strictly an incident or a series of incidents that strictly
occur with rap music, but music in general goes through constant
scrutiny by radio programmers, for any number of reasons they
may decide to play or not to play. Oftentimes with rap music, I
think radio owners, radio station managers and their advertisers
create a bit of pressure for them and make it difficult for them to
consent to play a record.

I might also add that a lot of stations around the country today
have a tremendous passion for the rap music because they are real-
izing the passion that their audience has for rap music. It should
be made clear to everyone in this room that most of the hsird-core
rap music was not made with an intention of radio playing it. Most
of the rappers 4 or 5 years ago were very, very vocal about not car-
ing about being on radio, so much so that some of them even put
it in their songs.

They call, actually call into the radio stations in specific cities
and talked about radio, because radio stations who are often seen
to be in touch with the mainstream of the community, based on the
popularity of rap music, there was an indication that radio was not
in touch with the community, and as a result of that reality, radio

V 60

now plays a lot more rap music than they played in terms of 4 or
5 years ago.

I might — just one closing statement on that same issue about
radio and rap music. Fifteen years ago when this music was cre-
ated, most people hated it when it wasn't hard core or obscene or
vulgar. Most people thought it wasn't going to be around. It was
doomed to go away.

If we flash back, radio, especially black radio, when — and more
so prior to the disco era than in the last 10 or 15 years, the jocks
were the rappers. Somewhere along the line, radio deejays at black
radio, they were stifled by their managers and their owners and
not allowed to do the hip rapping of the Frankie Crockers, of the
Butterballs and the various disk jockeys around the country.

So today when you listen to radio, you don't hear that crafty, art-
ful rhyming poetic announcer that you hear, but 15 or so years ago,
when Curtis Blow, the Sugar Hill Gang and numerous other artists
broke on the scene with rap music, it wasn't obscene, it wasn't vul-
gar but people were putting the music down and saying it wasn't
going to survive, it wasn't going to be here.

Today, rap music is the single-dominant force in black music in
America and the world.

Mrs. Collins. Let me ask another question of both of you now.
It has been pointed out during this hearing at various times that
not only African-Americans, young people enjoy this music, but
that those in other cultures enjoy it as well.

Do you have any figures or statistics about the sales of rap
music?

Mr. Harleston?

Mr. Harleston. Actually

Mrs. Collins. Whoever wants to answer. Everybody can answer
if you want to.

Mr. Harleston. Figures that have been furnished to me by the
Recording Industry Association of America, which is the trade asso-
ciation for the recording industry, these figures reflect that, if I un-
derstand the question correctly, you are interested in the racial de-
mographic, reflect that in 1993, 53.1 percent of purchasers of rap
music were white, 45.4 percent were non white. In 1992, 51.9 per-
cent of purchasers were nonwhite, 47.3 percent were white. In
1991, 48.4 percent of purchasers of rap music were nonwhite, 50.8
percent were white.

Now, I don't have information as to the data underljdng these
figures, nor the surveys or anything like that, but certainly

Mrs. Collins. So it is selling to most of the young people across
the Nation?

Mr. Harleston. Now, absolutely.

Mrs. Collins. Yes, now. So it is not just selling to a black mar-
ket, per se?

Mr. Harleston. No.

Mrs. Collins. Selling to mostly young people who want to buy
it?

Mr. Harleston. Yes.

Mr. Singleton. Congresswoman, again, and I said this earlier,
it is the music of our youth, and in the 1950's and 1960's when
Elvis Presley was rocking and rolling and gyrating his pelvis on

stage, it was considered obscene, vulgar. The adults of society dur-
ing that period rebelled. Today, he is — he is the hottest stamp that
exists in the U.S. Postal System.

Mrs. Collins. Tell me about Billboard. Billboard was highly rec-
ognized as a spokesperson, if you will, or a spokes organization for
much of what was going on in the industry. Is that still the case?

Mr. Singleton. Billboard is still highly regarded as the Bible of
the music industry, yes.

Mr. George. I would like to add, Madam Chairwoman, I was the
black music editor at that institution for 7 years during the growth
of rap music. Since I left in 1989, since that time, there has been
a change in leadership at the magazine and the head editor now,
a gentleman named Timothy White, has used rap music as a plat-
form to expand his voice in the industry.

On numerous occasions, he has singled out rap, particularly
gangsta rap as — in editorials and other ways, in somewhat, I be-
lieve, this is my own personal opinion, cynical manner to expand
his own voice in industry.

Mrs. Collins. Do you agree with that Mr. Harleston?

Mr. Harleston. I really don't have knowledge of Mr. White, so
I can't comment on that. I did just want to add that

Mrs. Collins. Have you seen this Billboard editorial?

Mr. Harleston. Yes, I have.

Mrs. Collins. Have you seen it, Mr. Singleton?

Mr. Singleton. No, I have not.

Mr. Harleston. I just wanted to, if I may, add to the character-
ization of Billboard. It is an important trade publication. But it is
not, nor am I aware of it ever having been, considered the voice of
the industry. It is, as many newspapers and magazines, as the
press, is a forum in which various views are articulated at various
times. The quotations that were lifted from that particular article
in the first panel, that was an editorial, and like most op-ed pieces,
reflects opinion. Certainly, not an industry view or position.

Mr. Singleton. Let me clarify that. Billboard, as an inter-
national magazine, as a Bible of the music industry, was more so
regarded as that because of its reflection of its charts and its sales
projections, not of its editorial content.

Mr. George. To buttress that, it never

Mrs. Collins. Before you do that, how does Billboard, speaking
of charts and all of that, how does it report or how does it chart
gangsta rap?

Mr. Singleton. It doesn't separate it. There is no category that
says gangsta rap.

Mrs. Collins. And it charts very highly; right?

Mr. Singleton. Madam Chairwoman, Billboard has renovated
its system of charting over the last, what did I say, 2 years. Nel-
son?

Mr. George. Two or three years.

Mr. Singleton. Two or three years. It went on to country music
and on to other formats. The last format that it made these adjust-
ments with were black music in all forms. For a little over a year
now, black music is being monitored and charted totally differently
than Billboard 2 years ago or prior to the change in its system.

That system is a combination of variables and factors that has to '
do with a tremendous amount of technology.

One of the systems has — is called "sound scan", and sound scan i
is like the bar code that we see on items that we buy in the super-
market or on your record. Every record should have the bar code
on it and, of course, it wouldn't surprise me if that record you held
up with the funny parental logo may not have a sound scan on it.
Because people who are totally unprofessional entering in business
don't quite know how to put themselves in the mix and really be
a part of the mainstream.

To make my point about Billboard and sound scan, sound scan
measures — it actually records the over-the-counter consumer sale,
which is a new method of measuring sales in America. That is
factored in exclusively for album sales, but a combination of that
record sale and radio airplay rotation is used for determining activ-
ity on singles for the regular chart, not the rap chart.

The rap singles chart is strictly sales and sound scan over-the-
counter purchases. Yes, rap music charts high because when rap
music is put out, rap music first and foremost, I think I should
clarify and make a statement here, that rap music has always had
a tremendous underground. It was never a major part of the main-
stream.

Remember, I mentioned earlier when the Sugar Hill Gang came
along, people were rebelling and rejecting the music and a lot of
people in the industry were not — didn't understand the music, and
it has always been the music of the streets of the community of the
inner cities.

So rap music has such a tremendous underground buzz, that it
doesn't get its marketing thrust always through the traditional
sources. There is a tremendous word-of-mouth, through clubs,
through retail outlets that are not necessarily the mainstream
stores, and for some reason when rap records are put out, there is
a tremendous word-of-mouth, even before the record is put out.

People know when the records are coming out. And that is also
the reason why I encourage that we begin to talk to our kids, be-
cause they have some marketing techniques that I think a lot of
us in corporate America, in companies all over the world, could
learn a lot from them.

Rap music charts high because it has this tremendous instant
consumer base, day one, when the record hits the stores.

Mr. George. Madam Chairwoman, it is an interesting phenome-
non of rap music that the arc of a rap record tends to be zoom the
first week or two, and then zoom down slowly over time, because
it is like a — there is really this tremendous word-of-mouth appeal
of the music. People know before the record comes out, there is a
buzz that goes on for certain artists.

Also, one of the phenomenons since sound scan has been intro-
duced, is the fact that one reason that gangsta rap particularly has
come to more of the forefront is that it literally, it really is — the
sound scan — now it really shows up in sales in a tremendous way.
The phenomenon of Dr. Dre and Snoop Doggy Dogg, particularly,
last year they sold about 8 million records, which is unprecedented
in the history of this music.

Mrs. Collins. We very much appreciate your coming before us
to testify. I know that many of you have come — some of you have
come from very long distances in this inclement weather. It has
been a hardship on your part, and I thank you for appearing before
our subcommittee today.

A colleague of mine, Maxine Waters, has been here for most of
this hearing and we are going to have her come forward at this
time.

You may make room for Ms. Waters, please.

Thank you for testifying before us.

STATEMENT OF MAXINE WATERS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

Ms. Waters. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman, for ex-
tending the time of this hearing to allow me to share a few of my
thoughts with you.

I am so very pleased that as this hearing has unfolded, that you
have made it absolutely clear that you have a responsibility to
know what is going on in this country and part of the oversight re-
sponsibility for your subcommittee is to respond to criticisms and
concerns that people bring to your attention. But you are one of the
profound protectors of First Amendment rights, and you are not
ooking at this to talk about legislating in any manner, but you
lave provided us with an opportunity for a discussion that America
needs, and I would like to thank you for that.

Additionally, I would like to thank you because you were one of
my colleagues who gave me compliments for the work that I did in
trying to explain to America the pain and the despair and the
hopelessness of our young people following the civil unrest. And
you went ahead to promote within our Caucus my getting recog-
nized for that at the Congressional Black Caucus last year, and I
will never forget that. Because at a time when I was being con-
demned by many in this country, you said what I said and what
I did had value. And, again, I would like to tell you that I will al-
ways appreciate your support for that part of my work that I felt
I needed to do.

You heard today that Los Angeles is rather a special place, and
I guess that is said about us all the time in many ways. But you
heard today that so-called gangsta rap originated in our area, and
you heard some reference to gangs ana to the despair and the prob-
lems of my city. Those references, of course, are absolutely correct.

Much of what happens in that city in south central Los Angeles,
I am very much aware of. I have been very much an observer. I
have been very much interacting with young people over a number
of years, and so I know them. They are, indeed, my children, as
they are your children.

They are our children, and I don't intend to throw them away,
to demean them or to marginalize them, but rather, my respon-
sibility and yours is to try as much as we can to understand and
see what we can do, given that we have been given this oppor-
tunity to serve, to transform them. And to do that, I think we must
embrace them. We must listen. We must try and understand, and
we must be able to articulate to America what they, too, are trying
to articulate. That scene in Chicago with 19 people and those chil-

dren fighting for food with the dog, those children who were cold,
those children who were uncared for, are really typical of what is
going on in far too many places in America. And somehow we pre-
tend it is not happening or it is somebody else's concern, and some-
how these children are going to live in these situations and grow
up to be wholesome adults who won't be angry, who won't cause
us some problems.

Who do you think those children are? What do you think they
are going to be doing a few years from now? If they are not angry,
it is going to be because they are so crazy they don't know to be
angry.

If they are not hostile, it is going to be because they are so im-
paired that they cannot act out their hostility, so I can't use a more
graphic picture than that of the children who were discovered in
the apartment in Chicago who were hungry, who were uncared for,
who were sick, who were basically victims of a society that is
wracked with drugs and other kinds of problems that are causing
our children to live in situations that we never dreamed.

And so I have a profound respect for the talented ones who know
that they are talented despite the fact they would never be identi-
fied, they would never be chosen by the industry, as we know it,
to share that talent. As a matter of fact, these children went into
their garages and their basements and they created this music.
They created this art form.

The same industry that we are asking and we are talking to of-
tentimes didn't want them. They did not embrace them. They did
not want their music. They were kept off of television. They were
not produced, and they persisted, and they sold the music on the
street comers and out of their cars. And so as someone said, they
didn't care whether radio took them or not, because whether or not
radio plays them or not, they can still make money, and lots of
money, and distribute it in ways that are foreign to the industry.

Let me just share something with you because I am moved to do
it.

I was reading some lyrics to a popular hit song and it almost
made me cry, and I would like to share it with you: As I look up
at the sky, my mind starts tripping. A tear drops from my eye. My
body temperature falls. I am shaking and they break in tr5dng to
save the dog. Pumping on my chest and I am screaming, I stop
breathing, I see demons. Dear God. I wonder, can you save me. My
boo-boo is about to have my baby and I think it is too late for pray-
ing. A voice spoke to me and it slowly started saying, bring your
lifestyle to me and I will make it better. How long will I live? Eter-
nal life and forever. I will make your life a lot better than you can
imagine, or you can dream of. So relax your soul. Let me take con-
trol. Close your eyes, my son.

This writer. Snoop Doggy Dogg, and his peers have been charged
with glorifying criminal behavior, denigrating women, in fact, caus-
ing the horrifying reality of our society today. But if we stop to
think, we know very well what Snoop, Ice Cube, Ice T, Dr. Dre,
Queen Latifah, Yo Yo, address in their art, and there is no question
about it. They are artists.

They painted the world with their words and their music as they
see it, as they feel it, as they live it, watch it and hear it. They

feel pain. They long for hope. They despair of change. They long
for meaning. Humans have always created art to express their
pain, hope and despair of change. We all remember the cherished
spirituals which grew out of the blood and tears of our ancestors
here in America as they suffered on the white man's plantations.

Yes, many good people are genuinely offended and others are
deeply concerned about rap music, and all have the right to oppose
the music and to express their opinions. And there are a few who
would defend the right to free speech with a greater fervor than
mine, but let's take a closer look at what has been said and think
about the consequences.

First the words. Some are concerned about the image of the black
community which is painted in words such as were described here
today. I will spell them rather than say them. "H-0, B-I-T-C-H"
and others. I must confess, I am not as offended as some have de-
scribed, or insulted when I hear cuss words and they find their way
into the arts. And I do respect, I really do respect that some might
feel genuinely offended and demeaned by such words.

But I grew up in St. Louis in the hood, in the ghetto, as many
of us did. I didn't first hear these words when Snoop said them.
I didn't first hear these words when it came out of so-called
gangsta rap music. I heard these words oftentimes by adults, by
those who held in highest esteem in the church on Sunday morn-
ing. But as they talked on the street, in the alleys, as they stood
on the comers, as they were in living rooms such as mine, I heard
these words, and so I am not quite offended.

I don't say to people, you should use them. I don't encourage
them, but we had better stop pretending like we are hearing them
for the first time.

But I am truly far more bothered and grieved by the painful
landscape revealed by these songs which tell story after story about
young black men losing their fight simply to survive in our rich Na-
tion.

Second, the message. Liberals and conservatives alike express a
concern that rap music causes violence, because the fear of crime
and violence has spread its way out of the ghettos and into every
single community in America today.

Liberals sometimes are looking for a solution and are beginning
to think that there might be a connection between art and violence.
If we ban music about the violent reality of our community, will
that end the violence?

Let's not kid ourselves. There are those who have a political
agenda in seeking to distract people from other issues. Sometimes
our friends, the conservatives, are having a field day. They have al-
ways believed blacks cause most of the crime in America. After all,
they say, look at the inordinately high number of blacks in prisons
and on death row. Now their evil propaganda stands virtusdly un-
opposed in today's public debate over rap music.

Let's not lose sight of what our real problem is. It is not the
words being used. It is the reality they are rapping about. For dec-
ades, you and I and so many others have talked about the lives and
the hopes of our people, the pain and the hopelessness, the depriva-
tion and abuse. Rap music is communicating that message like we
never have. It is, indeed, as was described, the CNN of the commu-

nity causing people from every sector, including black leadership,
to listen and pay heed.

Let me share with you what I see in rap music and what I be-
lieve it can mean to our communities and the future of our young
people. Transformation. Rap music will both figuratively and lit-
erally play a role in transforming the lives of youth in urban inner
cities.

For the past 3 years, I have brought rap artists to the Congres-
sional Black Caucus here in Washington. These young men and
women care deeply about their communities and their generation.
They have offered time and again to help, and they have asked how
they could help every year at the Congressional Black Caucus that
I have been here.

I have created a forum, because I saw what was coming and I
wanted us to get to know them and to interact with them and have
them tell us what was going on in the industry and what was hap-
pening with these young artists.

We have a room full of young people. Whether we have the GO
committee room or whether we nave the large room over in the
Cannon Building where we convene hundreds of people, we have
had before us— Cool Modi was one of our first who came to visit
with us, Andre Harrel who was mentioned today sat with us and
discussed who he is and what he does.

I have interacted in other ways with Russell Simmons and Ice
Cube. As a matter of fact, we honored Russell Simmons and Ice
Cube on the same program with Bill Cosby and Rosa Parks in Los
Angeles, because we are in the business of embracing and trans-
forming. We do not isolate or marginalize. We believe to the degree
we bring people together, the same people who feel alienated from
us and include them in what we do, not only will we be able to in-
fluence them; we will be able to transform them.

I had last year at the Congressional Black Caucus, a young man
that I love that I have adopted. He used to call himself Intelligent
Hoodlum. He is now called Tragedy. Tragedy told us about his life.
He told us about his mother on drugs. But he probably also told
us now that he is making money, how he is responsible for his
mother's rehabilitation and how well she is doing.

Whenever he is in the city, he calls me. We go to dinner. We go
to lunch. We talk, and he is constantly saying, Ms. Waters, can I
come to Congress and can I tell them about who we are and what
we are doing?

I tried to get him to come here today. We were not able to reach
Tragedy.

Queen Latifah was at my women's group. My women's group is
the Black Women's Forum. We have a cross-section of women, but
it is mostly upper-middle-class women who earn good money and
who come from what would be considered strong backgrounds.
Queen Latifah received a standing ovation from women who
thought they would never sit in the room with a rap artist because
they did not know who she was.

They didn't understand how profound she really is. They did not
know how much she cared.

Today I am proud to announce that their involvement and sup-
port in the biggest and most important project of my career, a pio-

neering program which will be funded by many concerned people,
reflecting the broad spectrum of the entertainment industry, in-
cluding Snoop Doggy Dogg, Dr. Dre, Ice Cube, and Ice T. Following
the L.A, rebellion, the Black Women's Forum and I created a very
small but successful pilot program based on the truth that thou-
sands upon thousands of young people hanging on American
streets comers want positive and productive lives, they want a way
out of the vicious vacuum created by joblessness, dropping out of
school, drugs, hustling, dysfunctional families and the criminal jus-
tice system. And our pilot program helped provide the way out.

Now we are expanding that pilot into a full-scale effort called
"L.A. 17 to 30." Madam Chairwoman, you and others in the Con-
gressional Black Caucus came to my defense and supported the "17
to 30" on the government side, where we identified some money in
the Summer Youth Program unused and we fought like the dickens
on the Floor and we were able to get that money now into the sys-
tem, and the regs are being developed for it. So on the public side,
we will have some money in the system to deal with "17 to 30."
That is that population of young people that we feel have been
dropped off of America's agenda.

On the private side, in Los Angeles, where we know this problem
better than anybody else, we have gotten the entertainment indus-
try now involved in supporting 5,000 young people. Soon, 5,000 of
these young people, mostly black and Latino males, will get that
chance through the Los Angeles 17 to 30 Program, where we will
be helping — where we would only be helping in our pilot programs
in a small way, a few people, we will now be helping 5,000, thanks
to the incredible support of the entertainment industry, particu-
larly, including rap performers.

There has been no program like this in our Nation's history and
it is my fervent hope and belief that it will succeed. We will go to
the streets where we will identify them, these young people age 17
to 30, and because we know young people who are the Crips and
the Bloods and the A-Tres and the Five Duces, and on and on and
on, they will be the recruiters for the program. They are the real
life people that are described by rap music, living on the fringe, in
a shadow world.

We will find them in Los Angeles, Inglewood, Gardena, Haw-
thorne, Lynwood, Compton, Carson and elsewhere in L.A. County,
L.A. 17 to 30 will operate with a bare minimum of overhead and
administration. It will contract with 100 qualified case managers,
each one of whom will provide old fashioned quality social work to
50 enrollees each.

During the course of one year, the 5,000 participants will receive
a stipend of $50 a week, money which they will use for very basic
necessities, including transportation, haircuts and lunch money.
The case manager's job will be to socialize and mainstream their
clients, and it can be done.

The clients will be enrolled in the nearest vocational education
program, job training program, high school diploma program, or
community college. The case managers will work with the young
people to help them understand the responsibilities of going to
school every day, and they must be enrolled and they must go to
get the stipend. They must be on time, following through with as-

signments and homework and being a good student whose goal is
to become educated or trained so they can be self-sufficient and
independent.

Case managers will be in constant contact with their clients. We
want every one of our clients to succeed. There will be regular
group meetings in the churches where each case manager will iden-
tify the church, where they will work with their 50.

They will bring before them role models and all the other kinds
of things when they meet with them once a week. They will also
follow up on day-to-day basis with the individual by going to the
schools, going to their homes, just working on the streets in the
hood, doing whatever it takes to work them through the problems
they encounter on a daily basis. Problems such as speech defi-
ciencies, lack of clothing, health issues that certainly exist in our
community.

The case manager will be able to direct their clients to the appro-
priate resources and agencies making full use of the existent sys-
tems and networks to meet the needs of the participants.

Who will these case managers be? They will be contractors work-
ing from their own homes, each with a special 17 to 30 telephone
that will be installed in their home. The telephone company is
helping us to put together a communication system where the case
managers will be able to talk with each other and leave messages
and all the young people enrolled in the program will be able to
interact with their case managers.

They will be contracted working from homes to reduce the over-
head and to keep them free to be out on the streets. They will be
constantly interacting with other case managers, sharing concerns,
asking questions and finding new solutions.

The program is very low tech, but it is massive and it is going
to enrich our community magnificently, if we are successful. Our
goal is to help our individual clients develop positive attitudes
about work and security and a community free of crime.

We want to see that our clients receive education or training. We
want to better enable our clients to become independent, to find a
job or to successfully retain a job, and it is the case manager's re-
sponsibility to empower the individuals with the tools by which
they will do this.

Each case manager will earn an annual fee of $35,000. Adminis-
tration of the program will be minimal. The cost of the project for
one year is $17 million. Resources will largely come from the enter-
tainment community, and as I have said, we have received an over-
whelming enthusiastic response from the rap community in par-
ticular. They have shown tremendous initiative in asking repeat-
edly how they may help. They are the engine that is powering the
L.A. 17 to 30 program, and I am deeply grateful for their dedica-
tion and commitment to the community.

In closing, I just want to ask that we all stay in touch about the
program and help spread the word, and we want everybody to keep
us in their prayers and we want to make sure we direct the money
that we have put into Federal Government into our cities.

I see Snoop from time to time. I just saw him, as a matter of fact,
at the Super Bowl where he was an invited guest. Rap was the cen-
terpiece of the entertainment at the Super Bowl. Not only was

' 69

Snoop there and others, but they are a part of American society.
They are in the mainstream. They are not going away. A lot of
money certainly is being made, but people recognize that there is
a lot of art and there is a lot of talent out there.

They, too, will be involved in the program. They will be interact-
ing with our young people. I just saw Ice T at a funeral of a young
man from south central Los Angeles who was killed, who was in-
volved in the truce. I saw him break down and cry as he was asked
to give words.

These are not cold-blooded, noncaring criminals. These are your
children and my children. These are young people who have been
isolated and denied the opportunity to say who they are. They feel
just as we feel.

I have never heard one of them curse in my presence. I have
never heard them say anything but "How are you doing, Ms. Wa-
ters?" and reach out to hug me and embrace me.

I love them dearly and I want us to learn how we can better uti-
lize their talents and let them know that we indeed love them.

This coming September, as we will do our Congressional Black
Caucus weekend, I hope to have as many of them as I can. I hope
to bring Snoop Doggy Dogg here and Ice Cube and any of the rest
that we can get, and I am sure that the Congressional Black Cau-
cus will continue to allow me to have that space and that time as
we promote who we are and what we do.

Again, my sincere thanks and appreciation to you. Madam Chair-
woman, for taking all of this time on this terrible day when most
people are locked up in their homes rather than face the snow and
the ice and the rain to come out to do anything.

I would like to commend you for continuing with this hearing
and taking all of this time to hear all of us.

Thank you very much.

Mrs. Collins. Well, we certainly appreciate your testimony and
we know the fine job that you have done with these young people.
And we are certainly hopeful that your project will be a pilot pro-
gram, in fact, that perhaps others of us who have similar cir-
cumstances in our districts can benefit from.

Thank you for appearing before us today.

Ms. Waters. Let me just say one last thing, C. DeLores Tucker
is one of my closest friends in the world, and we talk about this
in different ways, but we all work toward the same ends with the
same goals, and no matter how we approach that, our hearts and
our love are with the young people. I want everybody to know and
understand that Sister C. DeLores and I, whetner we talk on the
telephone or in this room, or anyplace else, we are going to find a
way by which to realize the goals that we all aspire to.

Thank you very much.

Mrs. Collins. With that, this hearing is adjourned.

[Whereupon, at 1:47 p.m., the hearing was adjourned, to recon-
vene at the call of the Chair.]

[The following statement was received:]

Statement of Dionne Warwick

To all assembled here tx)day for this most important hearing of testimony regard-
ing the effect of a recorded form of communication called "Gangsta Rap", I must say
how sorry I am not to be able to be with you to personally deliver this passionate
concern that I have about this subject, and to personally thank the honorable Con-
gresswoman Cardiss Collins, who bravely has given me, and others, this opportunity
to be able to express our concerns, and/or lack of concern.

As a single parent, an African-American woman, a recording artist for the last
30 years, a daughter, a sister, an aunt, a girlfriend, and one of the co-chairs of the
National Political Congress of Black Women, Inc., I feel the graphic and continued
exposure to violence, sexual activities usually reserved and expressed in the privacy
of bedrooms, and the appalling abusive use of words in descriptions of women, spe-
cifically African American women, via a medium that has long been regarded as the
easiest way to get a message across, recordings, and now with the additional help
of video used to enhance these recorded messages, I am compelled to ask those who
supply these recordings and videos — ^What and how do you think the mothers,
grandmothers, sisters, aunts, wives, girlfriends, of the providers of "Gangsta Rap"
products feel each time any of these recordings are played, or videos shown depict-
ing and expounding total disrespect and disregard for the African-American woman
specifically, and women generally?

I can, and will, speak for myself

I'm hurt, I'm angered, I'm disappointed, and will no longer sit passively allowing
this degradation to be continued by "our children."

In short, I'm tired, and I've had enough.

When will responsibility be demanded to deny the glorification and promotion of
violence with guns, knives, the use of drugs, the denigration and defamation of
women, and now, the explicit pornographic art work accompanying these record-
ings?

When will responsibility be demanded by all to deny the continuing images that
degrade our dignity, insult our families, stunt the emotions of our children, and
most importantly, our communities?

If the continuance of negative exposure, by a medium that is showing a distorted
look at images of male/female relationships, the constant undermining of our family
stability, encouragement of violence, abuse, and sexism as acceptable behavior, and
perpetuating the cycle of low self-esteem of our youth, expressly, African-American
youth, we then must be able to see and feel the effect.

The rise in murders, abuse, batterings, teen prostitution, teen pregnancies, and
teen suicide, is a reality.

An unconscionable burden has been placed on our children.

It has caused their respect of each other to all but vanish, the value of life is all
but negated, and we as tiie "elders", and we who Eire giving opportunity of expres-
sion to "our" children, must now be courageous enough to take that responsibility
to show how we celebrate the Constitution, the free market system, and respect the
First Amendment rights.

Obscenity, in any form, has never been acceptable, and has been an exception to
free speech.

In 1992, the Canadian Supreme Court ruled that it was more important to ban
speech that is "dehumanizing to women than to protect free speech."

We cannot continue to allow what ends up on record or television and movie
screens to be the representation of what is thought to be what we want to see.

We cannot continue for the sake of record sales and ratings, to lead "our" children
down a one way street.

We have got to let them know that "Menance to Society", and "Boyz in the Hood"
is not the totality of our experience as African-Americans. We have got to let them
know that the human drama and struggle and tales of love and tragedy and por-
trayals are available for them to learn of the royalty and pride that their African
lineage from which they come.

We all know loving and nurturing families and neighbors — ^Why then is it a depic-
tion that our lives are worse than dysfunctional?

All of us now have to take the steps to correct this misconception that is being
dished up to "our" children, and all mankind being accosted.

We cannot continue to allow "our" children to pre-pay their funerals, we must
take seriously that old cliche, "Our children are our future", we must again invest
in "our" youth.

I applaud Dr. C. Delores Tucker for taking the initiative to support and provide
insight into the process of reclaiming "our" youth. In so doing, we also reclaim our
communities, and our cultural heritage.

In conclusion, I recognize this to be an enormous undertaking, however, all of the
struggles that I for one have been a part of for the right to be respected and re-

farded as an equal human being, not to be demoralized by anyone, am willing to
e one of the tlu-eads that will provide the tapestry that has to be woven depicting
the love and fiill respect that we all deserve unconditionally.

MUSIC LYRICS AND COMMERCE

THURSDAY, MAY 5, 1994

House of Representatives,
Committee on Energy and Commerce,
Subcommittee on Commerce, Consumer Protection,

AND Competitiveness,

Washington, DC.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:10 a.m., in room
2123, Raybum House Office Building, Hon. Cardiss Collins (chair-
woman) presiding.

Mrs. Collins. Good morning. This hearing of the Energy and
Commerce Subcommittee on Commerce, Consumer Protection, and
Competitiveness will come to order.

Today's hearing will focus on the impact of offensive, violent, and
misogynistic language in the recording industry.

Before we get started, I would like to welcome Mr. Bruce Pendle-
ton and his law and public policy class from McKinley Tech, and
I would also like to thank your students, Mr. Pendleton, for shar-
ing their essays on gangsta rap with me.

Since our first hearing on February 11 of this year on production,
sale, and distribution in interstate commerce of music which con-
tains sexually explicit, violent, and misogynistic lyrics, I have given
considerable thought to this issue, especially to the testimony given
at that hearing. I am deeply concerned that an issue of this mag-
nitude and consequence to youth, to women, and particularly to the
African American community, has for the most part been glossed
over by the media. The language, lyrics, and words that we use to
refer to one another in music, in conversation, and in the media
certainly do matter.

I do want to make it absolutely clear that the purpose of these
series of hearings is not to legislate, not to censure, not to discuss
abridgement of First Amendment rights, the purpose is to move
this discussion into the public forum and to explore consumer con-
cerns regarding the impact of abusive, offensive, violent language
in recorded music. We hope to raise the level of individual con-
sciousness and corporate sensitivity and to increase public aware-
ness and understanding of the issue.

We know from research and clinical observation, verbal abuse is
a major problem in the lives of children. Parents are rightfully con-
cerned about the impact of abusive language and negative imagery
in music and other forms of popular culture.

It was well established at our first hearing that much of this rap
music is commercially motivated and that some record producers
operate without standards, they just produce music that sells.

(73)

Many justifications were given for the abusive l3rrics. The primary
excuse was that these lyrics mirror the community, that the
gangsta rap created economic opportunities for otherwise deprived
African Americans.

What bothers me the most about that is the fact that the indus-
try puts out so-called clean or sanitized versions of that very music.
Now if you can put out and sell clean versions, why not just do
that, just put out the clean versions?

It is not my intention to give hip hop a bad rap. In my opinion,
the hip hop culture presents a much needed critique of a repressive
urban society. Rappers like Grandmaster Flash in the song, 'The
Message", which focuses on the social conditions of the community,
bring to the public's attention the myriad of problems that are the
outgrowth of racism and economic deprivation.

Furthermore, it is not the intention of these hearings to isolate
gangsta rap music while other forms of music and popular culture
that glamorize sexism and violence go unmentioned.

Abusive language represents a very small portion but a very
profitable segment of the music market. Each generation has its
own unique youth culture, and like this generation's B-boys and B-
girls, each has had their own rebellious music, dress, style, and at-
titude.

Since our last hearing, I have observed some changes. One, the
record industry has expressed its willingness to help resolve
consumer concerns; two, women are now vocalizing their dislike of
the derogatory references; three, female rappers are fighting back
with messages defying their one-dimensional, subservient role; and,
four, male rappers, some of them, like Dough E. Fresh, are express-
ing their concern, as we can see from the video clip here.

[Videotape shown.]

Mrs. Collins. That tape, that short bit, was taken from a TV
show called "In the Mix."

Today I am pleased that we will have an opportunity to hear
once again from the youth on this subject. I want to share with you
these thoughts from Dr. James Garbarino of the Erickson Institute
in Chicago, and I am quoting now. "The use of nasty and demean-
ing language sets the stage for violence. Depersonalizing individ-
uals and groups makes it psychologically easier to commit violence
against them. This depersonalization usually proceeds in small
steps, each one of which desensitizes the user and facilitates fur-
ther degeneration of humane relationships and instigates aggres-
sion."

I am concerned about the widespread use of violence and
misogynistic language. It certainly dehumanizes relationships and
desensitizes us to further assaults on human dignity.

Mr. Steams.

Mr. Stearns. Good morning, and thank you. Madam Chair-
woman.

I must confess that I am somewhat unfamiliar with rap or hip
hop. I regret that I was not here at the first hearing, but, Madam
Chairwoman, I wish to compliment you for calling the second hear-
ing on this matter. I have read the transcript of that hearing.

As a father, a father of three boys who listen to rap, and as a
member of this subcommittee, I am deeply concerned about the vio-

lence, misogjmy, the hatred of women, in the lyrics contained in the
lyrics and in the music.

There are those who will say that listening to music does not af-
fect behavior. I believe that exposure to repeated messages of vio-
lence, sadistic cruelty, misogyny, can and does influence behavior.
Music is a powerful medium and, like all media, can be manipu-
lated to produce certain results.

Recently there was a considerable controversy over the MTV pro-
gram "Beavis and Butthead." The characters spent much of their
time playing with fire. This program is very, very popular with
young people, and a lot of kids imitate the behavior of the tele-
vision heroes. One little boy burned down his trailer house and lost
his life in the process. MT\^ agreed to cut out the references to fire
and moved the show to 11 p.m. By moving the show back and edit-
ing the references to fire, I believe they acknowledged what we all
know, that people are influenced by what they see and what they
hear.

At our previous hearing, Joseph Madison, a syndicated talk show
host, spoke of the influence of rap on his son, and he said, "My 14-
year-old son began fantasizing and hero worshipping the images of
thugs and criminals, even to the point of dressing like a gangsta
rapper, and believed that jail was a better alternative to his mid-
dle-class home and existence. For this reason, I am greatly dis-
turbed by the proliferation of a music, a style, and class, and type
that advocates the killing of police officers, the denigration of
women, and the need for violent revolution. Unfortunately, I realize
that music sells and is therefore widely promoted."

The Wall Street Journal recently carried an article on a female
rapper named Boss. This woman explained that she couldn't find
a company to promote her until she adopted the gangsta image.
Now her rap is filled with obscenity, and her music is making her
a wealthy young woman. What message does this send to the
young people of America?

While I firmly believe that every American has the right to ex-
press himself or herself freely, without fear of Grovemment censor-
ship, certain types of speech are in fact regulated. Pornographic
material, for example, cannot be sold to people under 18.

I am not necessarily advocating such restrictions on the sale and
distribution of music, but those who choose to advertise messages
of murder and rape invite closer scrutiny of their actions.

Madam Chairwoman, I don't know what the answers are, but I
do know that I find that violence and rage in much of rap frighten-
ing. I hope our witnesses today can enlighten us, and I welcome
them here today.

Thank you.

Mrs. Collins. Thank you very much.

Our first panel today will be our youth panel. That is Ms.
Melanie Glickson of the Daulton High School; Mr. Marvin J. Cole-
man, who is the outreach coordinator; and Ms. Andrea Barrow of
the LaGuardia High School of Performing Arts.

Mr. Coleman — let me say this, Mr. Coleman, before we begin. We
operate under the House rules, which means that you will have 5
minutes to give a summary of your full statement, with the full
knowledge that your entire statement will be made a part of the

record. We are going to set the clock when you start talking. You
will also see this go on. When that turns red, that means that the
time is up, you can finish your thought. The bell will also ring to
indicate to you that, in case you are busy concentrating and you
don't happen to see the light, to help you know that time has ex-
pired.

STATEMENTS OF MARVIN J. COLEMAN, OUTREACH COORDI-
NATOR, IN THE MIX, WNYC TV, NEW YORK CITY, ACCOM-
PANIED BY MELANIE GLICKSON, AND ANDREA BARROW, CO-
HOSTS

Mr. Coleman. Thank you. Madam Chairwoman and members of
the subcommittee.

My name is Marvin Coleman. I am 24 yesirs old, grew up in
Philadelphia, graduated from Emory University in the spring of
1992 and from the Columbia University Graduate School of Jour-
nalism in the spring of 1993. I worked my way through school —
well, I helped my parents pay for my schooling as a DJ, and last
fall I joined In the Mix program produced by WNYC in New York
as the outreach coordinator, and I am going to talk about a show
that we did — an episode that we did called "Hip Hop: Then And
Now."

The In the Mix episode "Hip Hop: Then And Now" is the 43rd
installment of In the Mix. It is a clear example of what this na-
tional PBS weekly television magazine show for teens does every
week since its national debut in January 1993: It investigates, it
dissects, and it offers choices about pressing issues that affect
America's teens.

In an entertaining yet purposeful manner. In the Mix has chal-
lenged teens on issues such as AIDS, violence, teen employment,
homelessness, acquaintance rape, teen alcoholism, and much, much
more.

Recently, hip hop music and the issues that it raises was one of
the many social issues that we felt our teens had to deal with.
Since its inception in the mid-seventies, the music has evolved and
grown into a multimillion-dollar worldwide phenomenon, but that
growth has not come without its pains.

At present, there are intense debates about the direction and in-
tent of the music. Hip hop artists are being accused of promoting
violent, antisocial behavior and also being criticized for using sexist
lyrics that degrade women. Some groups have even called for boy-
cotts of radio stations who play hip hop songs with misogynist and
violent lyrics and also record stores that stock the same products.

In the midst of all of this whirlwind of controversy surrounding
hip hop music. In the Mix chose to investigate this subject in its
own unique way. Instead of doing yet another condemning report
about the problems of hip hop music and its artists, In the Mix in
its trailblazing and daring style, sought out several of hip hop's
founders and innovators to provide commentary on what is happen-
ing with the music and its younger artists.

In addition to interviewing the "old school artists". In the Mix
sought the opinions of hip hop's number one consumers, teenagers.
We had a teenage posse made up of African Americans, Cauca-

sians, and Latinos talk about the images of women in hip hop vid-
eos, the use of words like "nigger" and "bitch" in lyrics, the choice
whether to buy or not to buy certain music, and their attitudes to-
wards censorship.

The In the Mix approach, which is offering choices instead of di-
rectives, combined with stylized production values, incisive inter-
views, upbeat music, and enthusiastic teen reporters has given our
teens, our parents, our educators, and our community leaders the
show that they have been looking for. This program gets people
talking, thinking, communicating, and considering alternatives for
action.

The following details the pre-production research and decisions
that formed our show, "In the Mix, Hip Hop Then And Now." Our
show has never been a stranger to hip hop. In fact, every one of
the 42 episodes prior to our show on hip hop, we featured either
an interview with a hip hop artist, a hip hop music video, or at
least had hip hop music sound tracked as background music in our
segments.

The In the Mix hip hop interviews have been wide ranging. We
have had the likes of Chuck D., Paris, KRS 1, we have had Top
40 acts like Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince and K-7, we have had fe-
male rappers. Queen Latifah and MC Lite as well as Salt-N-Pepa,
and also we have had even the "underground" or hard-core artists
like Redman and Onjoc.

The videos that we feature on In the Mix are carefully screened
to ensure, one, that no offensive images go to our national audi-
ence; and two, the videos have a relationship to a topic that we are
covering in a particular episode.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Coleman follows:]

IN THE MIX

mP HOP: THEN & NOW

THE DEVELOPMENT & EVOLUTION

IN THE MIX episode #204 - Hip Hop Then & Now, History & Issues, the 43rd
installment of IN THE MIX, is a clear example of what this national PBS weekly
television magazine show for teens does every week since its national debut in January
1993 — investigate, dissect, and offer choices about pressing issues that affect America's
teens. In an entertaining yet purposeful manner, IN THE MIX has challenged teens on
issues such as AIDS, violence, teen employment, homelessness, acquaintance rape, teen
alcoholism, cind much more. Recently, Hip Hop music, and the issues that it raises, was
one of the many social issues that our teens deal with. Since its inception in the mid-
seventies, the music has evolved and grown into a multi-million dollar, worldwide
phenomenon, but that growth has not come without its pains. At present, there are
intense debates about the direction and intent of the music, and Hip Hop artists are
being accused of promoting violent, anti-social behavior and criticized for using sexist
lyrics that degrade women. Since the music was conceptualized and is performed
predominately by young African- Americans, several prominent leaders of the African-
American commimity are taking the music and its artists to task. Some groups have
called for boycotts of radio stations who play Hip Hop songs with misogynist and
violent lyrics and the record stores that stock the same product.

In the midst of this whirlwind of controversy surroimding Hip Hop music, IN
THE MIX chose to investigate this subject in its own unique way. Instead of doing yet
another condemning report about the problems of Hip Hop music and its artists, IN
THE MIX, in its trailblazing and daring style, sought out several of Hip Hop's foimders
and innovators to provide commentary on what is happening with the music and its

Page-1

IN THE MIX

HIP HOP: THEN & NOW

THE DEVELOPMENT & EVOLUTION

younger artists. In addition to interviewing the "Old School" artists, IN THE MIX
sought the opinions of Hip Hop's number one consumers, teens. This teen "posse"
made up of African- American, Caucasian, and Latino male and female teens engaged in
a discussion of the images of women in Hip Hop videos, the use of words like "nigger"
and "bitch" in the lyrics, the choice to buy or not to buy certain music, and their attitude
toward censorship.

The IN THE MIX approach, offering choices instead of directives, combined with
stylized production values, incisive interviews, upbeat music, and enthusiastic teen
reporters has given our teens, our parents, our educators, and our community leaders
the show that they have been looking for. This program gets people talking, thinking,
commimicating and considering alternatives for action. The following details the pre-
production research and decisions that formed IN THE MIX #204 "Hip Hop: Then &
Now."

IN THE MIX has never been a stranger to Hip Hop. In fact in every one of the
forty-two episodes prior to IN THE MIX #204 "Hip Hop: Then & Now," we featured
either an interview with a Hip Hop artist, a Hip Hop music video, or at least had Hip
Hop soundtracked as background music in our segments. IN THE MIX Hip Hop
interviews have been wide ranging. We have featiired political artists Chuck D, Paris,
and KRS-1, top 40 pop acts Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince and K-7, female rappers Queen
Latifah, MC Lyte, and Salt-N-Pepa, and even "underground" or more hardcore artists
like Redman and Onyx. The videos that we feature on IN THE MIX are carefully
screened to ensure one, non-offensive images to our national audience, and two, a direct

Page -2

IN THE MIX

HIP HOP: THEN & NOW

THE DEVELOPMENT & EVOLUTION

relationship to a topic that we are covering in a particular episode. An example is the
usage of Tragedy's "Street Life" video in a show where IN THE MIX spends a grueling
night in a hospital emergency room chronicling the effects of violence amongst teens. In
that show you watch graphic "on-location" footage of a team of doctors who try to save
a young man who has been shot in the chest. Tragedy's "Street Life" video admonishes
"young toughs" to think twice about their actions because they could end up on that
same emergency room table.

Prompted by a Source Magazine and Colimtbia University symposixim on Hip
Hop that featured the genre's founders Kool Here, Grandmaster Flash &. Melle Mel,
Afrika Bambaata, and members of the world-reknowned Rock Steady (Breakdandng, or
B-Boying) Crew, IN THE MIX producers proposed the story idea that one of our
episodes should include a segment on Hip Hop's founders.

As the story idea developed, our producers agreed upon two topics to ask the
foimders: violent imagery and misogynist references about women in Hip Hop lyrics.
We chose to ask the "Old School" artists about these topics simply because we felt that
their opinions would be insightful, motivating, and informative for our teen audience.
In addition, the media in general has been so pre-occupied with Tupac "2Pac" Shakur
and Calvin "Snoop Doggy Dogg" Broadus, we felt that our focus should be on the
feelings and thoughts of the people who started Hip Hop.

In addition to interviewing the foimders, another essential group to hear from
would be Hip Hop's premier consumers and our audience, teens. A regular segment
featured on IN THE MIX is the SHOUT (It Out) where teens voice their opinions on

Page -3

INTHEMDC

HIP HOP: THEN & NOW

THE DEVELOPMENT & EVOLUTION

various topics. In the Hip Hop episode we used the concept of un-rehearsed, raw
commentary from teens of various ethnic backgroimds to discuss questions of violence,
misogyny, censorship, and their own consimier habits.

This episode's format begins the with the contemporary issues raised by our
teens, re-caps the highlights of Hip Hop history as told by the founders themselves, the
SHOUT segment on the current issues, the founders' feelings on violence and
misogyny, a segment on conflict resolution as a solution to the violence that plagues
society today, the foimder's advice on avoiding conflicts and violence, the foimders call
for change of direction and in the music, and the show ends with our teens' voices
acknowledging that not all Hip Hop is bad and that there are positive artists who are
commercially successful.

After scouring through Hip Hop periodical, books, videos, and movies, we
agreed to pursue DJ Kool Here, Grandmaster Flash, Kevie Kev Rockwell the
Spinmaster, Grandwizard Theodore (first dj to scratch), the Coldcrush Brothers,
Whodini, Doug E. Fresh, MC Lyte, Tragedy the Intelligent Hoodlum, Alan Light —
music editor of Vibe Magazine, and Lesley Pitts — director of promotions at Jive
Records. Other old school greats such as Afrika Bambaata, Busy Bee, Melle Mel, and
Kurtis Blow were unfortunately unavailable at production time. In addition we invited,
albeit unsuccessfully, several writers and editors of the Source Magazine to be a part of
this project since their 50th Anniversary issue that chronicled Hip Hop's history was an
inspiration to our endeavor.

Page -4

IN THE MIX

HIP HOP: THEN & NOW

THE DEVELOPMENT & EVOLUTION

What resulted was IN THE MIX "Hip Hop: Then & Now." As noted in the April
24, 1994 review of the show in USA Today, this IN THE MIX episode is historical. The
IN THE MIX Hip Hop show finally puts on camera, the founders of Hip Hop who
have, to date, never been interviewed on a nationally televised forum. Instead of only
criticizing Hip Hop, IN THE MIX creates dialogue about the issues that are attached to
the music It is not unfairly critical, yet it is strongly critical of the music There is a
distinct and honest feel from the show because the criticism is self-reflective — rappers
checking other rappers on their abuse of the art form, teens checking other teens on
their consumer habits. This is not your typical, bandwagon, "whaf s wrong with rap"
show.

Those qualities, in addition to the entertainment value of the "old school"
footage, the music, and the interviewed artists themselves, make IN THE MIX #204
very attractive as Edu-tainment for our core audience, teens, and to adults who are
trying to understand just what their children are listening to. This show has received
praise and thus endorsement from those who critique Hip Hop because it asks rappeis
to answer tough questions, and from those who love Hip Hop because it finally gives a
venue to Hip Hop's foimders as well as insight on how this cultiire started.

Page-5

IN THE MIX

HIP HOP: THEN & NOW

THE DEVELOPMENT tt EVOLUTION

Selected quotes from IN THE MIX - Hip Hop Then & Now /History & Issues

What is Hip Hop? Hip Hop is a culture. It's the way you dress. It's the way you talk. It's the kind of
music you listen to. But people has really bst touch of what Hip Hop really is, you know? People think of
Hip Hop these days, they think of a guy walking around with a pistol or disrespecting girls. No, that's not
Hip Hop. - Grand Wizard Theodore, the first deejay to scratch

/ think a lot of people think that rap music is making people turn to crime and that this whole rap
industry is creating all this violence and all this drug use. — Andrea Barrow, IN THE MIX Reporter,
age 15.

Violence was here before the gansta rapper greats were horn. Violence is going to he here afterwards. I
don't helieve gangsta rap is the cause of violence. — Tragedy, a.k.a. The Intelligent Hoodlum.

Media has definitely tried to make rap it's scapegoat, no one is trying to figure out drugs or haw the guns
are getting into the country, which should be focus. [Instead of] pointing the finger at some form of
entertainment. — MC Lyte.

/ think a lot of people take it seriously, certainly he's [Too Short] rwt out "mackin' the hoes" riding in a
Cadillac, that's not real, that's show business. I think he's taken a character and developed it. As a xxry
smart business man, [he] marketed his image. Offstage he is Todd Shaw, who is a very nice guy, when he
is on stage he's Too Short and Too Short sells a lot of records. — Lesley Pitts, Director of Pubudty, Jive
Records.

This art form is becoming conformed. One subject matter seems to he the only point. Somewhere along the
line or along the powers that be, it must have been said, 'the only type of record we're going to sign is a
record that's talking about disrespecting the opposite sex. Talking about hurting your peers or hurting or
physically killing your competition.' — Grandinaster Flash

Bade in the day you had a Doug E. Fresh that might do his beat box and rock the crowd and make people
feel good. You had a Whodini who catered to the female audience. You had a Big Daddy Kane who was a
lyrical, rhymin', battle-style artist, you had Boogie Down Productions who was like street rhymin slash
political-socio-consciousness...You had a rainbow of styles. But now since the money, is looked at as
coming from one ax>enue, it's like everybody is trying to rush to get through that one door. — Doug E.
Fresh

You're the buyer, so you have the choice whether or rwt to buy that material — Michael "Power" Viera
IN THE MIX Reporter, age 17.

/ think the solution starts with us, you have to set your goals, your standards in life. If you're going to let
rap and violence take over your standards in life, that's really a problem, and you htnx to overcome that.
- Kevin Bryant IN THE MIX Reporter, age 17.

Page-6

Mrs. Collins. Much more of what you want to say will probably
come out in the question and answer session.
We are going to go now to Ms. Glickson.

STATEMENT OF MELANIE GLICKSON

Ms. Glickson. Good morning.

My name is Melanie Glickson, and I am 17 years old. I am a
high school senior in New York City and have worked on In the
Mix, a national weekly television show for teenagers, since its birth
in 1990. First, I would like to express my extreme pleasure at
being given the opportunity to express my views here today.

It has been my observation that adults often take decisions in-
volving young people into their own hands without investigating
the opinions of the teenagers themselves. Our ideas are often
stereotyped as impulsive and unintelligent and therefore dismissed.
It is a great honor to be present at a forum in which this is obvi-
ously not the case.

The opinions I express to you today come from the conglomera-
tion of experiences I have had as cohost of PBS's In the Mix for
the past 2 years. In the Mix differs from most programs in its
unique approach to television. I have grown extremely close to the
adults who make the show possible. They are open minded, ener-
getic, and truly dedicated to the show's doctrine of listening to
teenagers and refusing to preach to them. In the Mix really is a
program for, by, and about young people.

The current season of In the Mix will be my last one because I
will start college in the fall. During the past two seasons, I have
explored hundreds of issues, many concerning violence, sexism in
music, traveling across the country meeting many different types
of teenagers. These experiences have truly shaped my perspectives.

Growing up in New York City, I try to listen to all types of
music, but the presence of hip hop in my life has been unavoidable.
The specific show relevant to today's topic is "Hip Hop: Then and
Now." It explores the evolution of hip hop from the old school days
of rock music to the current issues of sexism and violence in hip
hop music, particularly in gangsta rap, basically asking what hap-
pened between then and now to cause such a profound shift in the
messages of the music.

We chose to explore the hip hop controversy because of the tre-
mendous impact that the music has on young people in addition to
the growing misconceptions and concerns as to its influence on
teenagers and society as a whole.

The purpose of the show was not to preach gangsta rap is bad
or gangsta rap is good but merely to expose the issues at hand, lay-
ing out the arguments and allowing young people to make their
own decisions as to their opinions on this topic. We believe that
this approach of presenting the facts and letting the teenagers
themselves decide how they feel about it is the only way to give
young people the voice they need.

Having interviewed a large number of the major hip hop artists
in addition to having spoken to hundreds of teenagers nationwide,
I feel that I can represent a viable portion of the teen population
in the views I express to you today.

Hip hop is not simply a genre of music that kids like to listen
to before going on their nightly drive-by, it is a culture, a way of
life, and a means of expression of society's joys and ills. Its beat
and rhjrthm speak to us, making us want to move. Like all art
forms, the topics that hip hop addresses are reflections of what is
going on in society.

There is a reason that the entire entertainment industry has
taken an extremely violent route, and there is a reason for the fact
that rap in the late seventies and early eighties was much more
innocent. Society has taken a tremendous turn for the worse in
terms of life on the streets and issues such as education, poverty,
drugs, et cetera. This turn is reflected in many aspects of our cul-
ture. Television, movies, the media, the lyrics of rap music are just
one facet of this vast shift in the entertainment industry.

Personally, the most sensitive and controversial issue in my
mind with regard to hip hop is the portrayal of women in many of
its lyrics and videos. Although the denigration of females is only
one aspect of hip hop music as a whole, it is one which deserves
considerable attention. I know I speak for many young females
when I express the unmitigated outrage that I experience when lis-
tening to such degradations, degradations that are present in all
forms of entertainment in the media as well. The negative aspects
of hip hop are symptoms of society's flaws, not the causes.

I definitely feel that the portrayal of women by many rap artists
creates the false sense in the minds of males and females that
women are merely objects and sources of sexuality in addition to
presenting an extremely destructive picture of the ideal female that
many young women may try to emulate. This portrayal is more
dangerous than many people realize.

In the Mix and I have done segments on sexual harassment, dat-
ing violence, acquaintance rape, and eating disorders, and I have
observed how susceptible a female's self-image is to male criticism.
There is enough of a problem with pornography, magazines, and
the media telling women what is beautiful without our music tell-
ing us as well.

I realize that a large portion of both males and females who lis-
ten to the lyrics which degrade women understand that the por-
trayal is an inaccurate one. However, its overall affect is only det-
rimental. Awareness needs to be increased, and women need to
stop feeding into this image.

Issues like the ones addressed today are of paramount impor-
tance. Decisions regarding young issues and young people will not
only affect teenagers today but have the power to determine the di-
rection of society in the coming century.

We as young people must begin to take it upon ourselves to make
positive change a reality instead of just an ideal. Our voices must
achieve the strength to be heard regardless of whether adults be-
lieve we are capable or not. We will be the leaders in a short time.
Our views must not be allowed to be stifled through censorship,
however. People — and that includes teenagers — must be given the
ability to decide for themselves what they wish to listen to.

However, artists also have a responsibility to be true to their art
by respecting the impact it can have. In the Mix feels that hip hop
is a vital part of young life and that everyone is entitled to the

right to formulate their own convictions regarding all aspects of
music. This right must not be suppressed.

Thank you.

Mrs. Collins. Thank you.

Ms. Barrow.

STATEMENT OF ANDREA BARROW

Ms. Barrow. Good morning.

My name is Andrea Barrow, and I recently turned 16, and I am
in the 10th grade at LaGuardia Performing Arts High School in
Manhattan.

After taking part in the on-camera discussion of rap issues in
this show, I have continued working with In the Mix as a reporter.
I have been an avid listener to hip hop since the early 80's when
I was 5 years old. I have watched rap stories change from hanging
out with friends exchanging tales about girls and families to stories
about hanging out, smoking, and dope, and protecting yourselves
with gats. So when I found out that I was going to be part of a
congressional hearing on rap music, I felt, one, how scary to appear
before the congressional subcommittee and speak for millions of
teens throughout the Nation, and, two, wow, someone is finally lis-
tening.

In the Mix has not only given me the chance to speak with all
of you today but it has exposed me to a lot

Mrs. Collins. Would you mind pausing for a moment please?

We will give you the time to finish your statement. Go ahead —
because we have interrupted you.

Ms. Barrow. OK.

In the Mix has not only given me the chance to speak with all
of you today, but it has exposed me to a lot of scary but real issues
from violence to teen pregnancy to issues that affect the hip hop
community, and it has all made me more aware of the problems
that I hadn't taken much notice of.

It has been my observation that through some of the images I
see on public air waves and in movie theaters, the media, and the
entertainment industry can desensitize many young people my age
and give them license to act out in ways that society would have
never thought acceptable in the past.

On the other hand, my involvement with In the Mix has given
me new perspective on how TV can be used more constructively to
explore issues and communicate more positive messages which
could have the effect of turning things around.

I feel teenagers have not been recognized as having solutions to
the problems they face. I would say that the adults I have heard
from feel more or less that it is their responsibility to take care of
the problems that affect teenagers. A far more effective solution
would be a partnership between adults and kids. If we look at
building this ideal relationship, I would hope that it would not be
limited to just kids and their parents but to communities, schools,
government, the work place, as well as the home.

I was lucky enough to be able to take part in the process of
change, the posse segment of the hip hop show that brought teens
together and allowed the issues to be open for discussion. This was
definitely a successful first step for me. Hearing fellow teens dis-

cuss different perspectives on the issues surrounding hip hop and
keeping an open mind about the possible solutions helped me dis-
cover new thoughts and ideas, kind of develop a train of thought,
and possibly come to conclusions I might not have reached other-
wise.

Television programs that give teens a voice allow them to have
a better sense of self-empowerment. As I see it, some rap music ex-
presses and depicts a feeling of hopelessness. Try to picture what
this rapper called NAS is going through for him to say, "Life's a
bitch and then you die. That's why we get high. Because you never
know when you're going to go."

While we may be looking today at only one of the In the Mix pro-
grams, it is important to know that the show is smack in the mid-
dle of its second season and new shows and topics are seen each
and every week. Recently I taped a segment for an up and coming
show that deals with the way violence in Shakespeare's time is not
unlike it is today. I was fortunate to talk with several kids after
seeing Titus Andronicus performed in repertory in a New York City
theater, and their reaction to the violence and death depicted — the
play depicted was frightening. The teens totally accepted the vio-
lence because they associated it with the need for the characters
to gain respect.

Looking at that experience showed me that teens are at a point
where they tolerate violence and have come to expect accept it as
a part of their everyday lives. From my point of view, I found it
disturbing and sad and wanted to understand why they had
seemed to have given up on a safe and secure future.

By bringing in our cameras and having the students talk openly
with In the Mix, I saw some of the teens open their mind to a few
solutions, however small. It gave them the opportunity to react to
the violence from a new perspective.

As one of the newer reporters from In the Mix, I have had the
experience of taping a segment, reporting on an important subject,
meeting a celebrity guest, or getting other teens together for a
round table discussion on a controversial issue. The show is edited
and then sent to PBS. I can get so caught up in the process that
sometimes I forget the ultimate objective, communication.

Now why does it work? Because it doesn't preach. It is a show
that comes down on any one point of view. In the hip hop show,
the producers got people from diverse backgrounds together to look
at rap music from different perspectives. This gave viewers a
chance to consider the issues and decide whether they agreed with
the messages and the music or disagreed, and, if they did agree,
what they would do about it. I was one of the teens involved with
this group discussion. After we hit on the issue of violence, we
started to talk about rap music and the role of women, both the
artists who performed as well as the women depicted in the music
videos who appeared to be comfortable with being called "bitches
and ho's."

Some of the men insisted that the women don't — that some
women don't protest the derogatory references to women, and they
honestly felt that women think that this is a compliment and might
make them more desirable. The women universally disagreed. The
discussion broke down on a gender level, and we caught on tape
how women who don't protest that portrayal in music can cause so-
ciety to think that they are comfortable with this image.

[Testimony resumes on p. 124.]

[The following documents were submitted:]

^^ A natirmal PR^ umAldtf urioc Inr tRAns

a nationai PBS weeMy series tor teens

THE INTER NATIONAI J.Y API^n .AIMFH P^TRI I t; TELEVISIO N SFRHiX FOR TEENS

. 1992 CPB Gold Award Winner, Local Children's Programmiog

. 1993 Finalist for the ODie Award, youth category of this national award

1994 Finalist for the PRIX JEUNESSE, youth category of this prestigious

~BA late May, 19"

international award (TBA late May, 1994)

IN THE MIX IS ...

'It 's just the right 'Mix '...a combination of CBS ' 48 hours and MTV. IN THE
MIX... captures that streetwise quality and it's just that touch of urban grittiness that makes
the first show of this promising weekly series so terrific. ' That's how The New York Daily
News greeted the 1993 launch of IN THE MIX, the weekly, magazine-format PBS television
series produced by WNYC for, with and by teenagers.

From rap issues to gangs, anorexia to sexual abuse, finding money for college to getting a job,
IN THE MIX tackles the critical issues teens care about in prooing, thought-provoking
investigative reports, providing in forma tion teenagers need to make positive life choices. Now
in its second season on PBS, IN THE MIX captures the beat of teen life through the
enthusiasm of its on-camera teen reporters and the insight of teens working behind the scenes.
It combines the intensity of real stones. . . supported by m-depth background research . . . with the
energy of music videos, sassy humor, and cutting edge production techniques. IN THE MIX
dishes out straight talk about alternatives, not preachy messages. It is an authentic voice for
teens across the country... a forum they can call their own... and a valuable resource for
parents, teachers and all who care about our country's youth.

WHY IN THE MIX ?

In today's world of expanded freedom, yet reduced parental and community supervision, IN
THE MIX brings the creative and persuasive power of television to help our increasingly
vulnerable teenagers visualize positive role models and harmonious multi -cultural relationships
and provide them with the information they need to choose constructive alternatives.

IN THE MIX REACHES OIJT ...

IN THE MIX reaches out to teens across the country through:
national and local youth groups

schools and teachers who have now begun to adopt IN THE MIX
as a valuable catalyst for class discussion and cntical thinking
the electronic information highway, eliciting input from teens via
Learning Link, America Onlme and Prodigy
a national evaluation involving researchers, youth leaders, teachers
and teens in organizations and schools across the country,
strategic alliances with corporations like Girbaud, Sony, Fuji, Ecosport

IN THE MIX WORKS !

Extensive evaluation by RMC Research shows that IN THE MIX is extraordinarily successful
m deeply touching its teenage audience, catalyzing meaningfijl discussion and provoking
critical thinking. (See the attached evaluation report and summaries.)

WNYC/TV 1 Centre St. New York. NY 10007 212-788-9700 FAX: 212-788-9707

^^ a natinnal PR.<i wnnUv wtritK hy iaens

a national PBS weekly series hy teens

IN TH F. Mre ^p^i^i;^Af jji

Each season, IN THE MIX produces compelling, highly acclaimed public television specials,
each focusing on a single, critically important teen issue, accompanied oy a discussionguide that
is distributed to youth groups and high schools across the country. To date, IN "mE MIX
specials include:

TEENS TALK AIDS

TEENS TALK VIOLENCE

TEENS TALK JOBS

TEENS TALK AIDS, broadcast by PBS in April, 1992, has been hailed by experts in
adolescent development, teachers and teenagers alike, as the most powerful and movmg treatment
of this topic they have seen. The late Lee Polk, former chairman of the National Academy of
Television Arts and Sciences observed, "The AIDS segment is the most stunning piece of
television I have seen in ten years. More powerful and effective than any dramatization. "

Joy Dryfoos, author of Adolescents at Risk, agreed: 7 was in tears watching this program. I
have seen a lot of materials prepared for teenagers, but this is far and away the best.

An informal national assessment showed that the AIDS piece was highly effective in reaching
teens, enhancing their understanduig and stimulating uiem to thini about safer alternative
behavior.

TEENS TALK VIOLENCE and TEENS TALK JOBS were fed by PBS in November, 1993,
and again in January, 1994. Formal evaluation of these two specials with high school students,
teachers, principals and community youth centers nationally by RMC Research of Portsmouth,
NH, has shown that these programs:

interest and engage teens, delivering important messages in an understandable,
compelling anaage-appropriate way.

catalyze discussion, both in and outside the classroom on critical issues that have
a major impact on their lives.

promote critical thinking, problem-solving, positive personal and interpersonal
actions, as well as a greater sense of sen-efficacy and personal responsibility
among teens.

provide a springboard for further student research, writing, skills acquisition,
community mvolvement, and personal goal-setting and reflection.

can be easily adapted for use across many different curriculum areas (e.g.,
language arts/writing, history and the social sciences, economics/business, health,
life skUls) and special programs (e.g., confbct resolution,, life skills, counseling,
career planning, school-to- work projects).

Each of these videos, with its discussion guide, is available from PBS VIDEO, (8(X)) 424-7963

THE FIRST OF TWO SPECULS PLANNED FOR THE 1994 SEASON WILL FOCUS ON

— COMMUNITY SERVICE —

IViTiitH

WNYC/TV 1 Centre St, New York, rJY 10007 212-788-9700 FAX: 212-788-9707

TEENS TALK VIOLENCE: SUMMARY OF RESEARCH FINDINGS

from the
RMC EVALUATION REPORT ON IN THE MIX SPECIALS

December, 1993

"Probably the strongest indication of the power of this video to stimulate useful dialogue around issues and
causes of violence came during testing at one of the Indianapolis high school summer programs.... Students
watched the video with riveted attention, and when the RMC researcher started the discussion, everyone
wanted to talk at once: The entire class of less-than-willing students (many in this group were attending
summer school because of court orders) all wanted to talk about how violence figured into their lives and
about how they personally coped with it. In short, the session became a catharsis, helping them air their
anxieties, fears, frustrations, and 'street smarts' at an specially stressful point in time. The building
principal, who witnessed the session, was astounded at students' reactions, pointing out that this was
probably the first time that they were interested in doing better in life and learning new things. (He
immediately sought copies of the tape for teacher training purposes and for use in all high school classrooms
during the academic year.)" (RMC Report, Dec., 1993, pp. 25, 26.)

These extraordinary observations by RMC Research took place during their 1993 testing of Teens Talk
Violence on 172 students (52% African- American, 8% Hispanic/Latino, 19% other minorities, and 21%
white) from Albuquerque, NM; Springfield, MA; Indianapolis, IN. The evaluation confirmed the program's
exceptional success in appealing to teenagers while catalyzing discussion and stimulating positive follow-up
action. A few of the findings are summarized below and in the attached charts, reproduced from the report:

87% OF THE TEENS VIEWED TEENS TALK VIOLENCE FAVORABLY

BELOW AVERAGE AND AVERAGE INCOME TEENS WERE THE MOST POSmVE

THE VIDEO'S APPEAL WAS ESSENTIALLY UNIVERSAL. "Nearly all teens who
participated in the testing of Violence found the special interesting and engaging. Throughout
the viewing of the video, most teens raptly watched... and clearly enjoyed the opportunity to
see and hear other teens around the nation speaking out on violence-related topics. " (p. 24)

THE VIDEO WAS HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL IN CATALYZING DISCUSSION. "Not
only did Violence succeed in getting teens' attention, but it also provoked stimulating
discussion. This is a particularly sigmficam finding, given the many difficult testing
circumstances.... Clearly, use of this video -followed by asking the kinds of questions raised
in the accompanying discussion guide - by classroom teachers, counselors, or youth center
leaders could produce even more dramatic results." (p. 25.)

TEENS POUND EACH SEGMENT USEFUL: ("How Not To Be a Victim," 74%;
"Violence in Schools," more than 60%; "Handling Ethnic Slurs," 59%)

TEENS LEARNED FROM THE VIDEO; More than half said they learned from "How Not To Be
a Victim," "Girl Gangs," and "Conflict Resolution"

ALMOST HALF SAID TEENS TALK VIOLENCE MADE THEM BETTER ABLE TO
HANDLE DANGEROUS SITUATIONS

TEENS TALK VIOLENCE: SUMMARY OF RESEARCH FINDINGS

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TEENS TALK JOBS: SUMMARY OF RESEARCH FINDINGS

from the
RMC EVALUATION REPORT ON IN THE MIX SPECIALS

December, 1993

'Nearly all students who participated in the evaluation of Teens Talk Jobs agreed that the special was
interesting, useful, and fun. Most watched the program intently, laughed at the humorous parts, tapped their
feet or seat danced to some of the background music, and clearly enjoyed themselves as they listened. 'It's
good! " was an often-heard remarked as the video ended. . . Just as with the Violence special. Teens Talk Jobs
succeeded in getting teens' attention and at provoking lively class discussions. ' (RMC Report, p. 44.)

This quote, taken from the RMC Research report on Teens Talk Jobs, shows the extraordinary effectiveness
of this video in fuUy engaging its teenage audience, provoking discussion, providing helpful information and
opening students' eyes to positive actions they can take. The RMC evaluation of Teens Talk Jobs involved
170 high school students (37% minority) from five schools in Albuquerque, NM, and Indianapolis, IN.
Evaluation highlights include:

93% GAVE TEENS TALK JOBS A FAVORABLE RATING.

"I now know there are things I can do to start early on related to what I want
to do. " (Teen comment, p. 36)

"It's encouraged me to try to find a better part time job." (Teen, p. 36)

TEENS RATED EVERY SEGMENT "IMPORTANT"

THE VIDEO INCREASED TEENS KNOWLEDGE AND AWARENESS:

More than 70% said they learned from segments on "Entrepreneurs,"
"Apprenticeships," and "Career Exploration"

more than 60% from "Resume Writing" and "Spotting a Scam"

THE VIDEO POSITIVELY AFFECTED POTENTIAL FOLLOW-UP:

44% said they were likely to do better in an interview than before
35% said they have more work options than they previously thought

THE ENTREPRENEUR SEGMENT WAS PARTICULARLY MEANINGFUL FOR
MINORITY STUDENTS

82% of minority teens gave the segment a 4 or 5 rating vs. 56% of whites.

"That students ' own teachers, counselors or youth center leaders could produce more substantive dialogues
with students by using this video and asking the kinds of questions raised in the accompanying discussion
guide seems obvious. " (p. 44)

s
1

i '

iii.

SUMMARY OF EDUCATORS' RESPONSE TO IN THE MIX SPECIALS

based on
THE RMC EVALUATION REPORT

December, 1993

The positive reaction of the educators who screened the In the Mix specials was
extraordinary.

97% OF EDUCATORS RATED TEENS TALK VIOLENCE POSITIVELY

100% OF THE EDUCATORS RATED TEENS TALK JOBS POSITIVELY

77% WOULD USE THE VIOLENCE SPECIAL IN CLASS; AN
ADDITIONAL 14% SAID THEY MIGHT.

EDUCATORS PARTICULARLY APPRECIATED THE UNIVERSAL
APPEAL AND UTILITY OF THE JOBS SPECIAL - not just for the
minority of students who go on to college, but to all students regardless of
bacl(ground. Almost no such materials exist. Some teacher reactions (p. 56):

'Wonderfuir

'It really focused on some issues our lads need to focus on. '

'It 's great for (^ students. "

GUIDANCE COUNSELORS FOUND THE JOBS SPECIAL "EXTREMELY
HELPFUL IN PREPARING STUDENTS - MOTIVATING THEM,
ENCOURAGING THEM, EXCITING THEM."

THEY RATED BOTH DISCUSSION GUIDES AS VERY HELPFUL,
CLEARLY WRITTEN AND ORGANIZED WITH POTENTIALLY USEFUL
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS AND GROUP ACTIVITIES.

See attached graphs.

For more information about this research, contact Anne Mendelsohn at (212) 669-7753.

SUMMARY OF EDUCATORS' RESPONSE TO IN THE MK SPECIALS

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^^ a natinnal PR!! w(><>klv series for teens

a national PBS weekly series for teens

PBS* IN THE MIX BEGINS SECOND SEASON OF PRODUCTION

Weekly Series By and For Teens Announces New Format, Thematic Shows and

Specials for 1994

New York — IN THE MIX, PBS' critically-acclaimed magazine program targeting teens has
begun a second season of production, it was announced today by David C. Sit, Managing
Director of Television for WNYC-TV. The first show of the new season will be fed to PBS
stations nationwide on April 2.

Nominated by CPB this year for the prestigious Prix Jeunesse award honoring high-
quality programming for teens, IN THE MIX has been cited for in-depth, cutting-edge pieces
addressing pertinent youth issues. Several modifications have been made to the program
including a new half-hour format and the addition of several teen reporters. IN THE MIX also
plans to produce a number of theme-oriented, documentary style episodes this season on topics
including teen alcoholism and the evolution of hip-hop. This format proved successfiil last fall
when IN THE MIX aired their highly-rated "Teens Talk Violence" and "Teens Talk Jobs"
specials. According to Executive Producer Sue Castle, "Because of the overwhelmingly positive
response to the specials, we plan to target several shows to special themes in our second season.
In addition to being entertaining, our goal is to serve as an ongoing resource for teens on a variety
of issues of real concern to them."

One of the most intriguing aspects of the second season, will be IN THE MTX's POSSE
PROJECT designed to encourage community service participation and stimulate career
development by involving teens in the production of the broadcast. The Posses, to be established
on a national basis, provide feedback to the show's producers on future topics to be covered,
summarizing teen trends, and judging music videos. Last year, the NYC Board of Education
validated the Posse Project, allowing students to use their work with IN THE MIX to fulfill their
community service requirements.

-more-

i k Un WNYC/TV 1 Centre St. New York, NY 10007 212-788-9700 FAX; 212-788-9707

\tltftelfllX

^^ a national PRS weekly series lor teens

a national PBS weeWy series lor teens

IN THE MIX/2

The program will continue to feature carefully-screened music videos related to show's
content or, as part of an interview with a musical artist. IN THE MIX's popular "Shout" segment,
giving teens across the country and abroad the opportunity to voice their opinions, will remain a
permanent element in the show as will "Teens Who Make A Difference" and "Student Produced
Videos." Feature segments will be introduced by a group of revolving reporters which will
include several new faces as well as reporters from the first season's team. IN THE MIX has been
a springboard both professionally and personally for Melanie Glickson, 17, who gained early
admittance to Harvard University; AJimi Ballard, 2 1 , who graduated to a full-time role on an
ABC soap opera and will occasionally report for ITM; and 20-year-old Kevin Jordan, whose
quest to become a producer has been aided by his participation in the series.

Other members of the IN THE MIX team include Andrea Barrow a 1 5-year-old student
from New York City; Julio Rivera, a 17-year-old Brooklyn native; Tamah Krinsky, age 17, who
was a contributing reporter in the show's first season; and 18-year-old New Yorker Logan "just
call me Logan" Campbell.

The season opener, shot on location in Florida at the Children's Defense Fund Celebration
features "Teens Who Beat The Odds," the stories of teenagers who were able to excel in their
academic careers despite the pressures of an unsettled and often traumatic family life. Melanie
Glickson and Alimi Ballard talk to Shajan Clay from Baton Rouge, LA; Tyrina Smith from
Washington, DC; Wujin Zhou, Wellesley, MA ; Derwin Roca from Jackson Heights, NY; and
Sharonda Watts of Washington, DC. They ask them how they faced these challenges and find
out how they are succeeding in accomplishing their goals. Throughout the show, teens respond
to the questions "what are the problems we face" and more significantly, "what are the solutions
to these problems."

In another segment, IN THE MIX visits with 1 5-year-old Fernando Ruiz, a Bronx native
whose talent for graffiti art generated a part-time career at PolyGram Records where he designs
album covers. On location in Phoenix, reporter Tamah Krinsky follows a group of teens who say
the Y.M.C.A.'s DirtBike program helped turn their lives around.

Week two takes viewers behind-the-scenes at "Loving" with Alimi Ballard, now a regular
on the ABC soap and a contributing reporter to IN THE MIX. In addition, IN THE MIX takes an
in-depth look at the legal rights of teens and the resources available to help them address topics
such as education, orders of protection, custody issues, abuse and child support. Jonathan Petie
discusses how the fear of his abusive mother inspired him to gain legal status as an emancipated
minor.

<JLL|Ju -more-

[TTTun WNYCAV 1 Centre St. New York, NY 10007 212-788-9700 FAX: 212-788-9707

" a national PBS weekly seties fof teens

a national PBS weekly seties
IN THE MIX/3

Students interning at the Neighborhood Defender's Service address the rights of teens. As
members of NDS' youth employment program, these teens regularly talk to their peers about
legal and civil issues and how to contact a variety of outreach organizations. Other topics
covered in the second show are tax filing for teens and a "Shout" segment on "Breaking Up."

Other segments planned for the '94 season include a "Shame On You" style undercover
consumer report, a piece discussing "gender bashing" with Queen Latifah, organizational tips
from Seventeen magazine, advice on how to avoid car repair scams, the portrayal of women in
the media and a visit to a rehabilitation center for teens exposed to the shattering experience of
gang violence. Other newsworthy topics include date violence, moving experiences from Amer-
Asian and Bosnian teens, a day in the life of an imprisoned youth offender, a behind-the-scenes
look at a teen's experience of Detox and teen pregnancy. IN THE MIX will make special printed
supplements available to both educators and viewers on four of these timely issues. Again this
year, the production cycle will include two half-hour single-subject specials.

In its first year of production, IN THE MIX was nominated for the prestigious Ollie
Award. Presented by the American Center for Children's Television, the award honors vision
and dedication to high-quality programming for young people. In addition, the pilot show for IN
THE MIX won the Corporation for Public Broadcasting's Gold Award. IN THE MIX is
underwritten in part by the Ford Foundation, The Rockefeller Foundation, The Pew Charitable
Trusts, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, The Carnegie Corporation of New York, the
Charles Stewart Mott Foundation and The New York Community Trust.

IN THE MIX is a WNYC-TV production. Executive producer is Sue Castle. David Sit is
executive in charge. Anne Mendelsohn is project director. Robert Knezevich is senior producer.
Field producers include Harold Abrams, Jodi Daley, Kevin Delaney, Jane Hare, Steven Lemer,
JoAim Agnes Porter, Jane Zoidis Quinn and Renee Wren. Thea Feldman Burke is senior

segment producer. Vivien Stem is marketing/outreach director.

###

PRESS CONTACT: Nichols/Feren & Associates (212) 983-9600
WNYC-TV: Judith L. Weiss (212) 669-7749
OUTREACH: Vivien Stem (212) 788-9720

TiTTtn WNYCm/ 1 Centre St. New Yofk, NY 10007 212-788-9700 FAX: 212-788-9707

100

^^ n natinnal PR.^ uiookht corioc tnt Ioadc

a national PBS weekly series for teens

FACT SHEET

IN THE MIX is a weekly reality-based television magazine show with, for, and about
teenagers. Hosted and reported by teenagers, each program deals with the realities of
contemporary teenage life - its challenges, choices, opportunities, and joys while sharing
advice and offering self-help resources. Also featured are celebrity interviews and topic
related music videos. Carried nationally on the Public Broadcasting Service (PBS), IN THE
MIX is a production of WNYC-TV, New York.

Program Length:

Series Duration:

Second Season Premiere Date:

Produced By:

Hosts/Reporters:

Executive Producer
Executive in Charge:
Project Director

Senior Producer

Senior Segment Producer

Producers:

30 minutes

52 weeks

April 2, 1994 (Check local listings)

WNYC-TV

Melanie Glickson, Kevin Jordan, Tamah Krinsky,

Nathan Marshall, Andrea Barrow,

Logan Campbell, Eddie Vichadith, & Julio Rivera

Sue Castle

David Sit

Anne C. Mendelsohn

Robert Knezevich

Thea Feldman Burke

Harold Abrams, Jodi Daley, Kevin Delaney,

Renee Wren, & Steven Lemer

Fimding: Corporation for Public Broadcasting, The Pew Charitable Trusts, The Ford

Foundation, Carnegie Corporation of New York, & The New York Community
Trust, The Charles Stewart Mott Foundation, The Aaron Diamond Foundation,
The Nathan Cummings Foundation

Press Contact:
WNYC

Nichols/ Feren & Associates/ (212) 983-9600
Judith L. Weiss/ (212) 669-7749

Marketing/Outreach: Vivien Stem

WNYC/rv 1 Centre St. New York, NY 10007 212-788-9700 FAX: 212-788-9707

101

a national PBS weekty series for teens

OVERVIEW

IN THE MIX, a weekly 1/2 hour TV magazine show for young

adults is hosted by an ethnically diverse ensemble of teens. The

show is a blend of issue-oriented segments, celebrity profiles,

consumer reports and music videos. A cadre of dynamic,

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ inquisitive teen reporters cover topics ranging from AIDS to

!• what is in the mix~| violence, suicide to eating disorders; model scams to buying used

^^■^^~~^"^^— ""^ cars. Our teens have talked with MTV's Bill Bellamy and Blossom's

Joey Lawrence, Grammy Award wanning Salt & Pepa and Jazzy
Jeff & the Fresh Prince, The Spin Doctors, Christian Slater, Dr.
Ruth Westheimer, A Tribe Called Quest Geraldo Rivera, Kadeem
Hardison, members of baseball's Philadelphia Phillies and
basketbedl's New York Knicks, among others.

Regular segments include: SHOUT (It Out) where teens in cities

throughout the United States voice their opinions on topics ranging

!• only on in the mix I from Parents to TV Commercials to Relationships; Teens Who Make A

Difference which highlights outstanding teens nationwide; and
Student Shorts, featuring student-produced videos that get national
exposure on IN THE MIX.

Groups of teens, known as IN THE MIX POSSES, scrutinize each
episode. POSSES work behind-the-scenes to critique episodes and
generate segment ideas. The groups develop topics and research
ideas to assist producers, screen and select student and music
videos, and they also work "on-line" to communicate with teens
across the counby and answer viewer mail. The producers strongly
encourage all viewer-based suggestions.

IN THE MIX premiered in February 1993 and airs nationally on
PBS stations. Season I consisted of 39 original one hour shows,
including two specials. Season II features 26 original episodes, two
specials, and a new 1/2 hour format. IN THE MIX has received
acclaim from television critics nationwide, nominated for the
prestigious OUie Award, and winner of a CPB Gold Award for
Children's programming.

• teens behind the
scenes at in the mix

• award winning
in the mix

WNYCnV 1 Centre St. New York, NY 10007 212-788-9700 FAX: 21 2-788-9707

102

MONDAY, APRIL 25, 1994

PBS is 'In the Mix' with
serious talk about rap

In the Mix:

Rap Music: Then and Now

PBS, through Saturday
(check local listings)
(out of four)

By James T. Jones IV
USA TODAY

Hip rap music on stodgy
PBS? Has the genre finally got-
ten too big to ignore? Or too
controversial?

Both, actually.

PBS' half-hour youth-orient-
ed-issues show. In the Mix, a
teen version of 60 Minutes,
turns a critical spotlight on the
music that has enraptured
Generation X and perplexed
baby boomers.

The report. Rap Music:
Then and Now, traces the
genres history, from its begin-
ning in New York's Bronx in
the '70s to its current popular-
ization via gang^ta rap.

Using videos, black-and-
white hues, and MTV-styled
camera work. In the Mix cer-
tainly looks like the hippest
show PBS has done in a while.

And Mix's teen reporters
never fail to ask the tough
questions. Why does gangsta
rap denigrate women? Does
the music promote violence?
Should there be censorship?
However, these questions have
already been asked, answered
and debated in countless other
TV shows.

What makes In the Mix

TV PREVIEW

stand out is its inclusion of rap's
pioneers: Grandwizard Theo-
dore, Grandmaster Flash (rap-
per of The Message), Whodini,
Doug E. Fresh and especially
rap's first DJ, Kool Here — the
unsung founding father of hip-
hop. After languishing in obscu-
rity for nearly a decade. Here
explains how he originated hip-
hop by emphasizing break
beats — percussive parts
pulled from recorded son^.

But his comments are all too
brief.

So are the others', and some
beg for clarification. Alan
Light, music editor for Vibe
magazine, calls Sugarhill
Gang's '79 Rappefs Delight the
first rap record. Actually, that
honor goes to Fatback Band's
King Tim III. However, Delight
was the first to break through
the Top 40.

The show gets serious when
Mix reporters blast gangsta
rap for its misogyny. The rap
pioneers also disapprove of it,
but no one ever explains where
gangsta rap came from (the
West Coast if you were wonder-
ing), or why the style emerged.
And it would have been nice to
have heard from a gangsta rap-
per.

The segment ends with a poi-
gnant discussion of teen shoot-
ings, violence and death. Is
there a connection to rap? Stay
tuned.

103

DAILYe NEWS

Monday, January 25. 1993

It's just the right *Mix'

PBS magazine series for teens off to a fine start

By BRIAW MOSS

Daily News Oeowty Feaiufei Edtof

AS A TEENAGER growing up on Long Island,
I envied New York City kids. They were al-
ways jusl a lutle more hip, a little more cool,
a litile more sophisticated

"In the Mix," a new newsmagazine by and Tor
teenagers produced for public broadcasting sta-
tions by WNYC-TV here, captures that streetwise
quality, and it's just that touch or urban grittiness
that makes the Tirsl show or this promising weekly
series so terrific It premieres tonight at 9 on
WNYCCh 31 (On Feb 14. it will begin airing Sun-
day nights at 7 — opposite "60 Minutes" — on
WNET'Ch 13 )

To get the feel for "In the Mix," imagine a combi-
nation of CBS '48 Hours " and MTV hosted by four
mosaically correct and attractive city teenagers

Segments on the first fast-moving program, sug-
gested and reported by teens, cover tattoos, how
teenagers feel about the opposite sex, steroid
abuse among teens, hip hop culture and interviews
with Ian Zicring of "Beverly Hills 90210" and La-
Tova Hunter, the local teenager whose diar> was
recently published Between segments are music
videos by Marky Mark. Temple of the Dog. Bell Biv
Dcvoc and the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

The pace is rapid and the camera moves quickly,
using techniques familiar to MTV-watchers The
language is to the point 'Tattoos," says one of the
CO hosts. Jennifer Lee "Some call them art Some
call them gross " Thai's about right

TO THE CREDIT of all involved, the seg-
ments come across as neither slick nor su-
perficial, and the deft camera work never
goes over that line where it becomes intrusive, or
worse unwalchabic The co-hosts - Alimi Ballard,
Mclanic Glickson. Kevin Jordan and Lee - are
charming, likeable and, most important, not too
porfccl.

According to Sue Castle, producer of "In the
Mix. " the show was conceived as an antidote to the

REPORTING CREW: (clockv.ise from top) Melame
Glickson. Kevin Jordan, Jennifer Lee and Alimi Ballard,
tonight on WNYC/Ch. 31.

kind of racial misunderstanding that erupted in the
disturbances in Bedford-Stuyvesant two summers
ago It promises to take on important issues such as
pregnancy prevention, AIDS prevention, child and
substance abuse, and nutrition and consumer edu-
cation in its stew of entertainment and information
Despite that heavy burden, the program in its
first outing comes across as neither preachy nor
smarmy "In the Mix " is simply smart and fun. and
no doubi will prove to be for parents as well as their
kids.

104

seventeen

January 1994

success

stories

ENTERTATNMENT

v.V^: Melanie Glickson, 17. Wha-t she does:
Hosts In the Mix, a TV show on PBS by
and for teenagers. EoWc she get that
Z-zz': While tagging along with some buds
who were auditioning for the show,
Melanie decided to try out. Ten call-
backs later, she got
the job. Sz'T.ool
s-uff : Studied
dance, music ,
and theater at
The Da I ton
School , in New
York. Says her
background helps,
but "I'm just being
myself-turned up a
notch for the cam-
era." Vr.j- does she
dr it? "I get to
meet interesting
people, from teenage cowboys to
seventeen-year-old convicts." rt-.-iize
ir.-.cr^-i€v-5 : Christian Slater. Kadeem
Hardiscn, Ian Ziering. i:..c-'£ r.ts:. ; Har-
vard, Bro\i«m, or Duke University to study
premed or broadcast journalism. — R.G.

Ja/ire
gfdaon
^ t^es it

105

March 29, 1993
ASSOCIATED PRESS

Appeared in 185 newspapers
Total circulation 4,938,731

PBS mixes it up witli
teens on new series

By Frazier Moor*

The Associated Press

NEW YORK - A tell-tale sign
that "In the Mix" knows teens is
all the chow. On this weekly
PBS magazine series for young
people, expect lots of food and
lots of eating.

Witness "Mix" host Alinii Bal-
lard happily noshing his way
through an interview with a si-
milarly bottomless Kadcem
Hardison ("A Different World")
at a Greenwich Village diner.
The segment has an authentic-
ity, not to mention joie dc vivre,
that Barbara Walters sipping tea
with ZbigniewBrzezinski would
be hardpresscd to match.

Eating on "In the Mix" repre-
sents not just a happy pastime
for teens. It also reflects their
hunger for life and answers to it.
an appetite to which this scries
caters most appctizingly.

Produced by New York's
WNYC-TV, "Mix" likes to say
that it's for, by and \^.^th teen-
agers. Besides Ballard, hosts arc
teens Kevin Jordan and Mclanic
Glickson. Teens report stories.
Teens sound off on a variety of
issues.

"They are so bright and arti-
culate, street-smart and con-
cerned," says the show's execu-
tive producer. Sue Castle, who.
though no longer a teen, can
count among her "Mix" creden-
tials recently parenting two
daughters through their teen
years.

If "In the Mix" is any indica-
tion, Castle has a handle on the.
teen world.

Among the half-dozen i cpurls
that go into an hour-long "Mix"
might be a refreshingly even-
handed look at urban graffiti
(Jirt? vandalism'.'); an examina-
tion of racial slurs; n how-lo on
preparing a resume; a segment
on the tattoo craze that {^cnily
cautions against, yet rclu.^es lo
preach; a moving stoiy on how
classes in conflicl resohnion
have helped curb killings
among the student body of a

Associated Press

A new PBS series for teens will be hosted by, from left, Kevin Jordan, Mela-
nie Glickson and Alimi Ballard. The show, "In the H/lix," will be a magazine-
type news and entertainment interview program.

South Bronx high school; y pro-
file ofNatalic Merchant, siiigor-
songwritcr with the popular
band 10.000 Maniacs; and ii visit
to an Ohio high school that's so
financially strapped, its stu-
dents have to pay slilT fees to
play organised si^orts. ]

The diverse menu on this
week's show (check local list-
ings) includes a piece on .\1DS
and a report on wluic 1 > get
scholarship money.

.Ml this, jilus lour niusir vid-
eos per show.

Come to Ihink of it. much of
"In the Mix " has the lool. ;ind

feel ol n rock video. Quick cuts.
Wandering camera shots. Black
and white intercut with color.

Yet there's a solid magazine
show beneath the hip veneer —
anil the recurring food motif.

"Teens want to be heard,"
says producer Castle. "They
don't want to be in the news only
when thcNNe done something
bad."

She goes on to acknowledge
the show's locus on food, and re-
l>oits its impact on the show's
bottom lino: The catering bills
arc among the biggest
expenses:

THE EXAMINER

106

eek

April 9 to April 15
Norfolk Daily News

Reporters for PBS IN THE MIX" Include (clockwise from top) Tamah Krinsky, Kevin Jordan, Logan
Campbell, Melanie Glickson, Andrea Barrow and Julio Rivera.

Teen show in second season

New York - "IN THE MIX', PBS'
critically-acclaimed magazine pro-
gram targeting teens has begun a
second season of production.

The show airs Sundays at 6 p.m. on
the Nebraska ETV Network.

"IN THE MIX- has been cited for
in-depth, cutting-edge pieces ad-
dressing pertinent youth issues.

Several modifications have been
made to the program including a new
half-hour format and the addition of
several teen reporters

"IN THE MIX" also plans to pro-
duce a number of theme-oriented,
documentary style episodes this sea-
son on topics including teen alcohol-
ism and the evolution of hip-hop

One of the most intriguing aspects
of the second season, will be a Posse

Project designed to encourage com-
munity service participation and
stimulate career development by in-
volving teens in the production of the
broadcast.

The program will continue to fea-
ture carefully-screened music \ideos
related to the show's content or, as
part of an interview with a musical
artist.

The show's popular "Shout"
segment, giving teens across the
country and abroad the opportunity
to voice their opinions, will remain a
permanent element in the show as
will "Teens Who Make A Difference "
and "Student Produced Videos."

Feature segments will be intro-
duced by a group of revolving report-
ers which «ill include several new
faces as well as reporters from the

first season's team.

"IN THE MIX" has been a spring-
board both professionally and per-
sonally for Melanie Glickson, 17, who
gained early admittance to Harvard
University; Alimi Ballard, 21, who
graduated to a full-time role on an
ABC soap opera and will occasionally
report for the show; and 20-year-old
Kevin Jordan, whose quest to become
a producer has been aided by his par-
ticipation in the series.

Other members of the "IN THE
MIX" team include .Andrea Barrow a
15-year-old student from New York
City; Julio Rivera, a 17-year-old
Brooklyn native, Tamah Krinsky,
age 17, who was a contributing re-
porter in the show's first season ; and
18-year-old New Yorker Logan "just
call me Logan" Campbell.

107

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Current Viewer Mail
"BS'S "IN THE MIX"
pril, 1994

Contact: Vivien Stern

Market ing/Outt
(212) 788-9720

— f^«2cr.tTC,/vl Mt

110

04/13/94

Dear In The Mix,

I have watched many of your programs dealing with
teenage problems and solutions. I think that this free
and open way to tackle problems is different. It is in
touch with today's youth and their life. "In the Mix" is
in a class of its ovm, and I feel that it reaches many
people. I know it reaches me, and opens my mind to a lot
of new things.

I cane upon the heart of the program when I saw the
one dealing with the camping trip. Towards the end there
was a segment about abuse as a child and a survivor
telling her story. I feel that this message of rising and
walking can get across to people, and let them make the
decision to get help.

I look forward to many more "In the Mix" programs, and
hope that your ideas will grow and touch others as they
have touched me.

At the end of each program you ask about any
suggestions. Hell, I wanted to suggest having a writer's
contest. With short stories and poems. The winning
stories would be published or read on a show. I hope you
can use my idea. And thank you for having a great show
for all the young people out there.

— Could you play the "Sleeping Satellite" (by Tasmin

Archer) music video on your next show? If you do dedicate
it to Thandi, my best friend. Thanks. —

Always ,
i^arco Castro

Ill

leKphooe 1212) 862-7474 - 5
fax (2121 a«2-32J5

FRANK M HANEY
Chainnan, Detcon Board

VINIA R DAVIS
ChuKh Clerk

JEWEL T. THOMPSON, Ph.D.
Miniaer ot Music

ST CHURCH

LACE

ARTHliR R. RANSOME
Cha/rman, Jnjstet Board

FLOYD UM8LES
Trtaujrer

April 7, 1994

Mr. Marvin J. ColeBan

In The Mix

WNYC/TV

1 Centre Street

New York, NY 10007

Dear Mr. Coleman:

Thank you for sending a copy of a special fonaat - breaking
episode of "In The Mix", entitled 'ThB Hip Hop Experience".

I think the show is great. I believe that it will be very
powerful, and I thank you for calling it to my attention. I will
help to circulate information in our Church Bulletin and I hopte
that young people will watch it.

"Keep the faith".

Rev

Butts, III, D.Min.

COB/lmlA

112

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February 13, 1994

"In The Mix"

WNYC-TV

1 Centre Street

New York, New York 10007

Dear Producers: /

This letter is to thank you for a segment of the episode of your progranfl
which aired today on KQED here in San Francisco. The story I am responding to is
the one that dealt with HTV and AIDS and how it affects young people. I am HrV+
and 24 years old.

I was especially proud of the way in which you introduced the two people
with HFV disease who were among the group. By beginning with the group talking
about dating, it really let us see your positive guests blend in with everyone else in
the room. One of the most frustrating parts about trying to get through to young
people about HIV is that they think that, one they can't get it and, two that they
can tell if someone has it. Your segment dealt with both of those by letting the
conversation follow a natural (or so it seemed) course. The environment these
young people created in their group was very real and close to home. I think this
piece will really hit home with a lot of younger people who are sexually active.

It is also good that you focused the topics by the guests you selected. In
choosing two heterosexual {>eopIe with HTV disease who had contracted it though
sex you targeted the fastest growing segment of people who are testing positive. I
was very saddened to hear at the end of the piece about the young man's death. It
must have been a very emotional segment for your team to work on.

I am currently taking the last in a series of AIDS/HTV related classes at San
Francisco State University called "AIDS and People of Color". I will share this
program with them and encoiu-age the professor to conuct you about getting a copy
to show to her classes.

Again, I applaud you for your focus, daring, and sensitivity in dealing with
this subject. "In The Mix" is an excellent program. I wish your show continued
success in tackling the issues that face yoimg women and men today. Thank you.

Sincerely,

[ySA^QiVL Halverson

ITM letter frafli San Prancisco/ Califacnia

116

P.O.BOX 25923 RICHMOND. VIRGINIA 23260-5923

January 13, 1994

Sue Castle, Executive Producer
161 Wilburn Street, 22nd floor
New York, NY 10038

Dear Sue:

It was a pleasure talking with you about the possibility of the Impact on
Youth production crew coming to New York to produce a segment about the Mix
for its television show. Impact on Youth is a non-profit organization that
broadcasts on Continental Cablevision in Richmond, Virginia. Continental
Cablevision is installed in over 110,200 households throughout the
Metropolitan Richmond area which includes the counties of Henrico, Hanover and
Goochland, Virginia. Impact on Youth is also seen on the local cable channel
in St. Maarteen, N.A. in the Carribean and five (5) to eight(8) minute
segments about various special topics for youth are developed for broadcast on
the Virginia Statt Department of Education Satelite channel.

As a result, our segments are viewed in schools all over the state of
Virginia. Additionally, Impact on Youth,, would like to thank you for sending
us copies of your specials about violence and jobs for teens. Last year we
broadcasted the special on Aids that we received from you. We presented it
with all its credits as part of a series about Aids along with footage that
our youth production crew taped. The series was so well received that we
received requests to show the segments at all of the City of Richmond
Department of Health Adolescent Cents, Richmond Public Schools and Community
Centers.

Impact on Youth thanks you for cooperating with us. We hope 1994 will be
just as successful for you and us as 1993. We would like to continue
developing a long and positive relationship with you.

Sincerely,

Donald Patterson
Executive Director

117

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118

MiraVista Films, Inc.

625 Broadway (10th Floor) New York. NY 10012 Tel (212) 677-5292

Fax(212) 254-0915

Robert Knezevich
WNYC - TV
1 Centre Street
NewYork, NY 10007

Dear Robert,

I don't know who's responsible or which hand I shoukJ shake directly so I'm writing this letter. I
was flipping through the channels the other day. Something I rarely get to do. However to my
surprise I and came across the show "In the MIX*. Being somewhat of a snob to television
because of my film background I normally never watch public television, I guess you can say
I'm a cable junkie. However your show on PBS grabbed me. The feeling was overwhelming
so much that it drove me to write this letter. As a unit director for MTV segments, I have a
great appreciation for the importance of reaching out to young viewers through images, style
and music.

Basically I just wanted to say - Whoever is the creative force driving these segments deserves
a "Bra-vo!!!!!!!". The dynamics on your segments are outstanding. Aside from the great topics,
these segments have the rhythm and beat that's necessary to draw in the younger hipper
generations you're targeting. The camera movement, the mixing of film and video stock, to the
rapid cutting makes the work stand out. This letter might seem weird but as I stated I consider
myself a specialist in this area and can recognize when a team is doing a wonderful job. Like
any production I'm sure it cannot tie attributed to one person. The amount of creativity that
comes out in your segments has to be a team effort. I wish I could personally congratulate the
creative team that's producing this show. I'm currently shooting a independent feature film this
summer titled 'CROSSTOWN* but wanted to take the time and write this letter. I eventually
would love an opportunity to take a tour of your facilities and possibly meet the people
responsible. You guys are doing an outstanding job.

Sincerely,

^Ctt/^ti.^

Richard Mauro, Writer and Director, "CROSSTOWN"

119

SACRAMENTO CITY UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT

6879 14th avenue
SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95B20

November 29, 1993

Many thanks for the lesson plans to the "In The Mix" programs
of Movember 13, 1993 — Teens Talk ... Violence 6 Teens Talk
. . . Jobs.

I have used the violence program in the classroom and it
certainly caused a lot of discussion and expressions by most
students. I plan to use the jobs one later in the year as
our summer break gets closer.

Since my students are classed as "learning handicapped" it was
a pleasure to see them in such heated debate and discussion on
various points in the video and in real family situations.

If there are teacher's guides or lesson plans for other episodes,
I am certainly interested. Also is it possible to obtain past
episodes of this series, if so I am very interested.

Rick Sydor
1092 Salmon Drive
Roseville, CA 9566l-'i'i32
(916) 782-7827

120

Victor Montesinos

50-32 31st. Avenue Apt. 6B

Flushing, NY 11377-1309

September 21, 1993
IN The Mix
One Centre Street
New York, New York 10007

Dear IN THE MIX,

I like to take time out to congratulate you and tho- who put this show together. It really
speaks out and touches the teen community. The material however covered by this show does
not necessarily cover young adults, it also discuss issues that so called adults my also question.
The show also gives parents of any age a sample of what is going on with their lives and interest.

I must also mention the kudos to the editing staff and producers. They really keep the
pace when it comes to keeping audience at attention. The Documentary style of filming and
editing gives it a home style cutting edge feel. The shorts on how young adults feel about social
issues around the country is also gives viewers some insight as how the other side live and cope
with their social issues.

Since the beginning I have watched the show grow and add new features like Reel to Reel
and the presentation of "mini movies" by students in the public schools. These addition furthers
the strength of the show by adding diversity and trying out new things. The Consumer segment
is fantastic, let see more of it. Young adult work and pay taxes and they also get ripped off

In your show your always asking vie\yers about their opinion and suggestion. I have
included a few, and here are my suggestions:

1 .) Album reviews. Like movies consumers would like some type of idea what the album
is like and is it worth a listen. How about a top ten listing of eilbums and songs that are popular
around the country or in NYC. This information could be retrieved by popular radio stations or
Tower Records or HMV music stores.

2.) Teen Out Reach Centers. What do these centers do. How can a person become
involved in helping others. A segment on how ilie City Volunteers Corps help others in their
work.

3.) How about a segment on how to gel a diver licence or driver license horror stories,
or any other type of license that a young aduli maj ' : interest in obtaining. More segments on
cars. A couple of shows ago you had a segment on fune-Ups. It was great. However, I know

121

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a nationaJ PBS weeUy series for teens

TOP 40 STATION CARRIAGE LIST (AS of May 2. 1994)

STATION

CITY

DAY

TIME

WNET(13)

New York. NY

Sat

1230am

WNYC(31)

NewYor1<,NY

Mon

9pm

WNYC(51)

NewYoricNY

Fri

3u50pm

WEDW

Fairfeld,CT

Sat

10-30am

KCET(25)

Lo5 Angles, CA

Sun

1230am

KLC5

Lo5 Angeles. CA

Sat

11pm

•2

WTTW

Chicago. IL

Fa/orable consideration

WHYY

Philadelphia PA

Favorable

consideration

WNJ5

Camden, NJ

Sat

7pm (Covers Philadelphia Area)

WNJT

Trenton, NJ

Sat

7pm

WNJ&

New Bamswick, NJ

Sat

7pm

KQED(9)

San Francisco, CA

Sun

lOSOam

KKCd

Cotati, CA

Mon

frZOpm

WGBH(2)

Boston, MA

Sat

11:30am

WHMM(52)

Washingtoa DC

Sat

7pm

KPTN

Pallas. TX

Sat

6pm

WTV5(56)

Detroit, Ml

Sat

6pm

WPBA

Atlanta, GA

Beginning

5/1

K^TC

Tacoma, WA

Fri

7pTi (Seattle Coverage)

KCKA

Centralia WA

Fri

7pm

KTC1(17)

Minneapolis, MN

5pm, 11pm on Fn

WLRN(17)

Miami, FL

Sat

10am

WQED(13)

Pittsburgh, PA

Sun

7pm

1?^

KV1E(6)

Sacramento, CA

Sat

11am

)

KV!E(6)

Sacramento, CA

Sun

11:30am

WEPH(24)

Hartford, CT

Sun

ia30am

?'5

WEDY

New Haven, CT

Sat

1Q30am

: 5

KP&5(15)

San Diego, CA

4:30pm

^i6

WFY1(20)

Indianapolis, IN

Sun

4pm

r^e

W1P&

Muncie. IN

Sun

3pm

: 3

WTIU

Ploomington, IN

Sun

11am

WN5C

Rock Hill SC

Sat

6pm

.•^5

WGVU

Grand Rapids. MI

Sat

12mid

WNEQ

Buffalo. NY

Sat

7pm

KLRN

San Antonio. TX

Sun

11am

WNYC/TV 1 Centre SL New YotK NY 10007 212-788-9700 FAX 212-788-9707

I 124

Mrs. Collins. Ms. Barrow, we reset the clock to 5 minutes after
we had them turn off the television, so your time has expired.

Ms. Glickson, you referred to the tremendous impact that hip
hop music has on young people. Could you elaborate on that for
me?

Ms. Glickson. On the impact specifically?

Mrs. Collins. Yes.

Ms. Glickson. Yes. I think that the impact that hip hop music
has is — one part of the impact that the media entertainment has,
and I think that is important to keep in mind, but basically when
you see people your own age thinking about women in a particular
point of view and when you turn on the television and you see
women dressed very scantily and shaking it, and you see that this
is seen as an ideal, that plants like the idea in a young person's
head that this is something to aspire to. And, yes, when you turn
on the radio and you hear it, and you turn on the TV and you hear
it, and, you know, you read a newspaper and you see it, and you
watch a movie and you see it, that will all come together and defi-
nitely have some sort of effect.

Mrs. Collins. Now you say that the denigration of females is one
aspect of hip hop that deserves considerable attention. Now would
you tell us why you feel that way?

Ms. Glickson. Because of everything I have said about women
being portrayed in a derogatory manner and how detrimental this
can be. I think that it is one of the most important problems. I
think that the violence issue — the violence issue is definitely impor-
tant as well, but I can definitely see where that comes from on the
streets more than I can see where the misogyny comes from, be-
cause women are starting to be able to vocalize their dissatisfaction
more, and they are rising to power in the work place and things
like that, whereas the streets are getting worse.

So I can understand the outlet of violence in music, because it
is a reflection.

Mrs. Collins. Let many ask any of you — either of you can an-
swer the question here, and the question that I am going to ask
is, do you think that the record industry has a responsibility to the
consumer, to those who buy their music, their records — either of
you?

Mr. Coleman, Ms. Barrow.

Mr. Coleman. Well, as a form of what we like to say
"edutainment" — educational and entertainment mixed together —
we feel like we have a responsibility, and I would assume that
since the record industry is also considered entertainment, sure,
everyone should be responsible.

Mrs. Collins. What do you think their responsibility is?

Mr. Coleman. Well, I can't speak for the record industry, but I
can speak for In the Mix, and our responsibility is to offer choices,
to offer diverse — diversity in information, and to be responsible in
what we put out there.

Mrs. Collins. Well, Ms. Barrow, do you think the record indus-
try could help resolve the concerns that youth have about the deni-
gration of women?

Ms. Barrow. I would have to say that I think that we are in
charge as listeners. We are in charge of what is going on. Basically,

125

I feel that the reason why the records are selling with the misogy-
nist language is because we are accepting it. I think that the record
industries are doing their job. It is supply and demand. Once we
turn that around and make something else more positive, supply
and demand, that the record labels — it is a business for them, and
they are putting out what people are buying, and I think it is our
responsibility as the listeners, not so much as the heads of the
record

Mrs. Collins. Well, Ms. Glickson said that now women are ex-
pressing their dissatisfaction with lyrics like that, that are
misogynistic particularly, and if women continue to do so, do you
think that their lyrics will change, either of you?

Ms. Glickson. Definitely, but it needs to happen on a greater
level.

Ms. Barrow. Definitely on a greater level because, I mean obvi-
ously it is not enough, because there is still supply and demand.
There are not as many female artists out there, it is mostly the
male artists out there.

Ms. Glickson. Awareness needs to be increased, I think, and I
think that is what this forum is doing as well as what In the Mix
does, which is basically expose the issues and lay them out on the
table, and then once people see that, once young girls see that, they
can begin to take action.

Mrs. Collins. Thank you. My time has expired.

Mr. Steams.

Mr. Stearns. Thank you. Madam Chairwoman, and again I want
to compliment our witnesses today. I think their testimony is elo-
quent and impressive, and I appreciate their coming.

I want to go to the first question, to Ms. Glickson and ask you,
you eloquently stated that the portrayal of women in much of rap
is, quote, more dangerous than people realize, using your words,
and obviously I agree. I guess this goes a little bit to what the
chairwoman has said too. What should be done — and then I would
like to Mr. Coleman and Ms. Barrow to comment — what do you
think — besides publicizing, what should be done?

Ms. Glickson. Aside from publicizing it, action needs to be taken
in terms of decreasing the demand that young people have for this
type of music, and that is not to say that I advocate censorship of
any kind because I think that the result of that would be an in-
creased demand, it would go underground, et cetera, et cetera, but
the action that needs to be taken has to do with education, with
teen empowerment, with making us feel that we have a choice in
the things that we feel, and I think that once we decrease that
need, whatever is going on in society to make misogjniy, to make
violence such an issue, whatever is going on there, it needs to be
remedied.

I don't have an answer, specifically as to, you know, this needs
to be taken, A, B, C, and D, and then we will have a great society.
I mean I am not in a position to say that.

Mr. Stearns. Mr. Coleman?

Mr. Coleman. And then that makes me think that getting infor-
mation out is a very important aspect to this, because if young
women know that they have the choice not to buy a record or they
don't have to buy something or if they know about an artist whom

126

they may never have heard of before because they are not pro-
moted as heavily by record companies, or something Uke that, then
they will know that they have choices not to buy just one style of
music, they know that there's other types of music. I mean with
every negative there is a positive.

I mean every record label has probably a hard core artist and
also a very positive artist. What we like to do is offer those choices
where you can choose the positive or the negative and ultimately
you will have the power as a consumer to affect the record compa-
nies, because if you are buying the positive over the negative, then
the record companies will promote the positive over the negative.

Mr. Steaens. Ms. Barrow?

Ms. Barrow, I do think it is a social responsibility.

In the tape that was played here today, some teens came up with
solutions as to not buying some of these albums. Like I said before,
supply and demand. It is our own power. I think like Melanie said,
I think we need to recognize this as an epidemic so it can't just be
us over here saying, "Well, look there is a problem", we all need
to realize this problem and take care of it because it really starts
with the listeners. If you are going to accept it, if you are going to
accept these derogatory l3n-ics, then it is just going to keep on esca-
lating.

Censorship, I don't think is something — is a solution. I think it
is the Grovemment's responsibility to deal with some of the prob-
lems in the communities, then maybe the rappers and the artists
won't have to speak on such horrible conditions that they are in.

Mr. Stearns. Let me quote from Don Cornelius who is a host of
the TV show "Soul Train." He had suggested in our last hearing
and sort of advocated a more stringent system of record labeling
than the current parental advisory. Let me go to the heart of ques-
tion here. Using his language and what he has advocated, a more
stringent language put on the recording material, how do each of
you feel, just real briefly, if you could go, and do you think that,
as he suggested, that a workable rating system would be des-
ignated? And let me start with Mr. Coleman.

Mr. Coleman. I think that could be effective, but it is almost like
the movies where you have rated R movies and PG movies. If the
person that is taking the ticket money at the box office isn't screen-
ing a 14-year-old from getting into an R-rated movie, then it may
not be effective.

Mr. Stearns. Do you think, Mr. Coleman, it could be effective
like it is in the respect that in movies we have it?

Mr. Coleman. It may do more harm than good. It may promote
even more a record, a violent record.

Ms. Glickson. Definitely.

Mr. Coleman. I mean it has been proven that when you promote
a television show that says, "Graphic scenes included", more people
tune in.

Mr. Stearns. But sometimes a movie that is X rated or R rated
sometimes, with some individuals, they say, "I'm not going to go
watch that", because they know about it.

Madam Chairwoman, I would like to just have the other two wit-
nesses answer.

Mrs. Collins. Sure.

127

Mr. Steakns. Ms. Glickson.

Ms. Glickson. First, I am curious as to who will be the people
who rate the records. I mean adults? White males? That is defi-
nitely a consideration.

Also, I don't know if you remember the whole big controversial
scandal about a year or two ago with Ice Ts Cop Killer, that the
record sales completely increased once it was prohibited, and I
think that is exactly what would happen. That is what has hap-
pened throughout history; once something has been forbidden,
there is a black market and it goes underground, and it is made
even more desirable, and it would make a kid even cooler to own
that, you know, if adults were saying, "No, you can't." That is what
I feel the effects would be.

Ms. Barrow. I agree with both of them. I think like a label — like
an R-rated label attracts people because it is seen as, "No, we can't
do this, we can't do this", well, a kid feels he has power if he is
doing something that he is not supposed to listen to, and I don't
think it would be effective — personally, I don't think it would be ef-
fective at all, I think it would have the reverse effect and sell
many, many records because it is kind of like, "We don't want you
to hear this." Well, all these kids are curious: What am I not sup-
posed to be hearing?

Mr. Stearns. Yes. I believe my time has ended, Madam Chair-
woman.

Mrs. Collins. Let me just ask a couple of real fast questions,

Ms. Glickson, someone in the back handed you a note. Can you
tell us what that was — someone sitting behind you.

Ms. Glickson. This is Vivien Stem. She is our outreach director
of In the Mix.

Mrs. Collins. With In the Mix?

Ms. Glickson. Yes.

Mrs. Collins. OK. Thank you.

I just had a couple of quick questions — very, very quick. I believe
that Ms. Barrow said the Government should deal with the prob-
lems in the community and then the record industry would be
cleaned up.

You know, we have heard that before Ms. Barrow, but let me say
this to you, that there have always been problems in the commu-
nity. You know, we have been studying sociology forever, socio-
economic conditions forever, and the music that we have now may
be a reflection of what we have, some of the things that are going
on in the community which are not good, but prior to this time the
music was not nearly so harsh, you know. There were musicians
who spoke about the conditions in communities, what is going on,
you know, and others, other music that talked about that.

Years ago, Billie Holiday sang about strange fruit and other
things that were happening in a society that was very, very dif-
ficult in which to live, but the music itself did not use the harsh
words that you describe in your testimony. You know, the state-
ments were not derogatory, they were not sexually explicit, and it
is my belief that these are the kinds of lyrics that just should not
be there.

Now the Grovemment is not here to censure, we cannot censure,
we don't want to censure in this subcommittee. What we want to

128

do is to make sure that this kind of music is not on the scene at
all, that kind which is derogatory to women and exploits violence.

The question is, I think it was in your testimony, Ms. Glickson,
you mentioned about the beat. It is a great beat. I happen to like
the beat of rap, myself. I wish I could do some of the dances that
you do, but I can't. But the thing is, if it is the beat and if it is
the music, if the Ijn-ics were cleared up, it would be perfectly so-
cially acceptable and just as enjoyable, and I hope that you would
think about that, and all young people would think about that inas-
much as you say, Ms. Barrow, that it is, in fact, the consumer who
has the responsibility in your eyesight, so when you go to buy your
rap music or your hip hop, that you would keep those things in
mind.

Thank you very much for appearing before us. You have been
good witnesses. Thank you very much.

Mrs. Collins. Our next panel will consist of Mr. Paris Eley, who
is the executive vice president of Motown Records, and Ms. Hilary
Rosen, who is the president of the Recording Industry Association
of America, RIAA.

Would you come forward, please.

Mr. Eley, why don't we begin with you.

STATEMENTS OF PARIS ELEY, SEMOR VICE PRESIDENT,
MOTOWN RECORDS; AND HILARY ROSEN, PRESIDENT, RE-
CORDING INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA

Mr. Eley. Grood morning. Madam Chairwoman and esteemed
Representative. First of all, thank you for the promotion. I am the
senior vice president of marketing.

Mrs. Collins. Oh, sorry.

Mr. Eley. That is OK. It is good to be here with good news. You
had good news waiting for me.

I appreciate the opportunity to reflect on the very volatile yet im-
portant topic. Given the passions surrounding the debate, I suspect
my testimony here today will do little to satisfy the extreme fac-
tions on either side. That is to say, like yourselves, I hold no favor
of any proposal that encroaches upon the First Amendment. His-
tory instructs me that repressive measures are most often invoked
against an unpopular people, and in a society as diverse as ours
popularity is a shifting sentiment. So for the good of us all, we
should not assault that slippery slope.

Now having said that, I must now say, in the strongest terms,
misogynv has no more right to hide behind artistry than does big-
otry. Indeed, it is bigotry. We must exercise greater vigilance as a
society to avoid aiding and abetting the spread of either.

As heirs to the cultural icon known as Motown, we record rap
music. We have always reflected black America's culture even as
we shaped it. We have recorded the great music of Diana Ross,
Marvin Gaye, and Stevie Wonder. But we also captured the humor
of Richard Pryor and the monumental speeches of Dr. Martin Lu-
ther King, Jr. Then, as now, we are our culture, and rap is an inte-
gral part of that culture.

One of our more celebrated rap songs is entitled U.N.I.T.Y. by
Queen Latifah, a premier rapper, performer, and television person-
ality. Queen Latifah is one example of the other voices coming to

129

be heard in rap music. She speaks on demeaning male behavior to-
wards women and offers an affirmation of sisterhood and self-
worth. She denies the power of the sexual epithet to define her as
a person and condemns degrading male behavior without self-right-
eous posturing. Queen Latifah poses for the listeners' consideration
the premise that abuse is not love and the precursor for physical
abuse may very well be depersonalization. Though her own mes-
sage has a street-wise edge to it, she delivers food for positive
thought.

We think that is how the contest will be played out. This matter
of entertainment versus ideology will be decided in today's market-
place to a great extent by young consumers whose personalities
will be shaped by their homes, church, neighbors, ana their views
of our societal institutions. All have an impact to a greater or less-
er degree on the moral choices our young people make. So in a real
sense their choices will say a lot about us as well.

At Motown, as in other companies, our employees are parents,
uncles, and decent people, many who live in the communities most
affected by our social ills. They too, want an environment of civility
and respect. That is why, as a record company, we feel it necessary
to discuss both moral and commercial implications of artistic indul-
gence.

Finally, I say that we can ill afford to socialize our males with
a mind set that violence perpetrated upon the female is acceptable.
To do so is to accept an ever growing number of broken homes and
troubled children, yet morality for our children is an enterprise
that must be shared, it is not one in which the record company will
be the primary source.

I thank you for having me.

Mrs. Collins. Thank you.

Ms. Rosen.

STATEME^^^ of HILARY ROSEN

Ms. Rosen. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Good morning.

My name is Hilary Rosen. I am president of the Recording Indus-
try Association of America. Our member companies distribute
about 90 percent of all music sold in the United States. I am here
to present an overview of the positive and important steps the re-
cording industry has taken since this committee held its first hear-
ing on the explicit content of sound recordings commonly referred
to as gangsta rap. I also want to show you another side of the
young people who are creating this music.

First let me begin by reviewing the RIAA's voluntary parental
advisory program. In 1985 the RIAA reached an agreement with
the National PTA and the Parents Music Resource Center. The
agreement specified that music releases containing explicit lyrics,
explicit depictions of violence, and sexually explicit material be
identified so that parents can make intelligent listening choices
with their children.

In 1990 we revised the parental advisory logo to make it more
uniform. The black and white logo shown over here [indicated ex-
hibit] is standard in size, color, and placement. It is affixed to the
bottom right comer of an album, cassette, or CD's permanent pack-
aging underneath the cellophane shrink wrap. The label measures

130

1 by Vi inch on cassettes and CD jewel boxes and IV2 inches by
1 inch on albums.

The label was standardized to increase overall consumer aware-
ness of the advisory sticker and provide parents with an easily
identifiable means of singling out explicit recordings. Each com-
pany, in consultation with the artist, determines which of their re-
cordings will display the logo.

With that in mind, four things have happened since your last
hearing. First regarding the purchasing issue, we have reminded
the music community, both our member companies and independ-
ent labels, that it is imperative that companies adhere to the pa-
rental advisory program. Compliance is the most effective way to
exercise artistic rights while also exercising social responsibility.
The RIAA intends to be proactive in monitoring company compli-
ance.

At the last hearing, Mrs. Collins, you held up examples of some
explicit recordings that had deviated from the standardized use of
the logo. In one instance the warning sticker was smaller than it
should have been, and in another the sticker was missing alto-
gether.

In response, the RIAA sent a memo to the heads of more than
250 member labels reminding them of the proper use and place-
ment of the logo. Enclosed with the memo was a fact sheet describ-
ing what was the proper usage, and the memo was also sent to the
National Association of Independent Record Distributors with ma-
terials to send to their member companies, who tend to be smaller
independents.

Second, RIAA has recently changed our policy regarding the pro-
gram and its use by retailers. Since 1985 we have generally op-
posed the use of the sticker by record retailers as a basis for insti-
tuting restrictive sales policies such as 18-year-old purchase re-
quirements. At the time, we felt the sticker was designed to give
parents information as to the music and the recording and wasn't
intended to direct sales policies. We now understand the dilemma
that local retailers face if they want to make informed decisions
concerning how certain types of recordings should be made avail-
able in their community.

Third, we are beginning a campaign to educate parents about the
logo. Labeling of any kind is only as effective as people choose to
make it. Given that fact, we are embarking on a comprehensive
consumer awareness program to enlighten parents about the pro-
gram through a variety of media outlets. We ^^'ill encourage par-
ents to use lyrics as a jumping-off point for dialogue with their
kids, for only through this open discussion of difficult issues and
topics do we clarify values.

Finally and most importantly, I would like to discuss the internal
dialogue that is occurring within the music community. The Doug
E. Fresh interview that you showed earlier, I think, speaks prob-
ably better and more eloquently than I can about what is occur-
ring. No doubt there was much concern and awareness expressed
about the purpose of these series of congressional hearings.

However, since the last hearing RIAA has initiated a dialogue
with our companies and artists to advise them or the concerns ex-
pressed by legislators and political leaders about this issue. In fact.

131

at the direction of the RIAA board of directors we have formed an
ad hoc task force to discuss this issue and chart a course for the
future.

Artists don't underestimate the significance and importance of
their roles in society and the social responsibility that this implies.
They are doing wonderful things to address root causes of issues
in their own communities. I have a list of things that artists are
doing in my written statement. Just a couple of things: KRS 1,
Chuck D, Ice Cube, they go to community centers, they go to cor-
rectional institutions, they are preaching safe sex, they are preach-
ing against violence, they are preaching against drugs, they are
giving back to their community. Queen Latifah, Public Enemy, Self
Destruction, are rap artists who are raising hundreds of thousands
of dollars for "stop violence" movements. A number of artists have
participated with the NAACP and Rock the Vote to encourage kids
to participate in the political system.

[The prepared statement of Ms. Rosen follows:]

Statement of Hilary Rosen, President, The Recording Industry Association

OF America

My nfime is Hilary Rosen and I am the president and chief operating officer of
the Recording Industry Association of America.

I am here to present an overview of the positive and important steps the record-
ing industry has taken in its responsibiUty for the exphcit content of sound record-
ings. I also want to show you another side of the young people who are creating
this music.

However, let me begin by summarizing the RIAA's Voluntary Parental Advisory
Program. In 1985, the Recording Industry Association of America reached an agree-
ment with the National Parent Teacher Association and the Parents Music Resource
Center. The agreement specified that music releases containing explicit lyrics, in-
cluding explicit depictions of violence and sexually explicit material, be identified so
that parents can make intelligent listening choices for their children.

In 1990, after communicating with parents, record companies, and retailers we es-
tablished through the RIAA, a voluntary, uniform Parental Advisory logo and uni-
form terms for its placement. The black-and-white logo, shown here, is standard in
size, color and placement. It is affixed to the bottom right comer of an album, cas-
sette or CD's permanent packaging — ^underneath the cellophane shrink wrap. The
label measures 1 inch by Va inch on cassettes and CD jewel boxes and IVa inch by
1 inch on albums.

The standardized label was implemented to increase overall consumer awareness
of the advisory sticker and provide parents with an easily identifiable means of sin-
gling out "explicit" recordings. Each record company, in consultation with tiie artist,
determines which of their recordings will display the logo.

Madam Chairwoman, labeling "explicit" product is the commitment we made in
1985, it is our practice today, and our promise for tomorrow.

With that in mind, let me now outline four positive steps we have taken as an
industry since the day of the last hearing, February 11.

First, we have reminded the music community — both our member companies and
independent labels — that proper adherence to the Parental Advisory Program is the
best way to exercise artistic rights while exercising social responsibUity.

At our last meeting, you held up examples of some explicit sound recordings that
had deviated fi-om the program. In one instance the warning sticker was smaller
than it, should have been, in another, the sticker was missing altogether.

In response, the RIAA sent a memorandum to the heads of more than 250 mem-
ber labels reminding them of the importance of proper use and placement of the
logo. Enclosed with the memorandum was a fact sheet describing the exact size and
placement on both CD and cassette packaging. The memorandum was also sent to
the National Association of Independent Record Distributors & Manufacturers en-
couraging them to send the material to their member companies, who are generally
smaller independents.

Madam Chairwoman, the Parental Advisory Program is an effective tool. There
should be little doubt as to how seriously the industry takes this program.

132

The Parental Advisory Program is a positive response of the music industry as
responsible corporate citizens to provide useful information to parents or guardians.
In so doing, the Parental Advisory Program places the decision on who and what
to hear, where it belongs with the family or guardian.

The second step — and perhaps the most difficult to take was a change in RIAA
policy regarding the Parental Advisory Program. Since 1985, we opposed the use of
the sticker by record retailers as a basis for instituting restrictive sales policies,
such as a requirement that individuals be at least 18 years old to purchase record-
ings that carry the warning label. At the time, we felt that the sticker was designed
to give parents information as to the music contained within the recording, and was
not intended to direct sales policies of retailers.

We now see the benefits of local record retailers using the label to make informed
decisions concerning the types of recordings they should make available to their
community. It is a difficult, but appropriate, activity for some retailers, and we sup-
port our customers.

The third step we have taken is to educate parents about the Parental Advisory
Program. Labeling — of any kind — ^is only as effective as parents or guardians choose
to make it. Given this fact, the RIAA has recently embarked on a comprehensive
consumer awareness campaign to enlighten parents about the program. Through
television, radio and print media, we will encourage parents to use lyrics as a jump-
ing off point for dialogue with their children. For only through the open discussion
of difficult issues and topics do we clarify values.

Our proactive media campaign will endeavor to engage parents in the music buy-
ing habits of their children, thus empowering parents — not the government — with
the task of defining famDy values.

The final, and perhaps most important, step taken by the industry has been an
internal one. The RIAA has initiated a dialogue with our member companies and
their artists to advise them of the concerns expressed by legislators, political lead-
ers, and parents about this issue. This dialogue has led to a greater understanding
within the companies of the seriousness of these concerns and to more discussions
within the broader community. Suggestions have included setting up forums for dia-
logue with artists and kids, supporting artists and record companies in their efforts
to play a positive role in the political process by encouraging young people to reg-
ister and vote, organizing voter-registration drives with Rock the Vote at summer
concerts, and other activities. Our member companies do not underestimate the sig-
nificance and importance of their social responsibility and their role as good cor-
porate citizens.

Madam Chairwoman, the recording industry stands ready to dedicate its re-
sources to the communities which support us. But I fear we stand with a precious
few. Far too many people are confused. Too many people focus on the s3rmptoms of
violence and not Uie disease.

If I may, let me elaborate on a few examples of what our artists have done to
address the root causes and issues about whicn they rap. For example:

— KRS 1, Chuck D, and Ice Cube are stars of the lecture circuit. They spend half
their time discussing topics such as practicing safe sex, not using drugs, getting a
college education, giving back to the commumt^ and stopping gang violence before
such audiences as inner city elementary and high schools kids and inmates at cor-
rectional facilities.

— Self Destruction, Public Enemy, Queen Latifah and Boogie Down Productions
are just a few of the rap artists who helped to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars
for a special fund, within the Stop the Violence Movement, geared specificfdly at
fighting black-on-black crime.

— Ice Cube initiated the Brotherhood Crusade, a nonprofit organization set up
aft;er the LA riots to help rebuild minority communities and provide aid to the
homeless and the elderly. He's also a major contributor to Books Plus, an African-
American literacy program.

— Many rap artists including Ice T and Easy-E contributed to the making of
"We're All in the Same Gang", a single and video intended to deglamorize gang vio-
lence.

— ^And a great number of rap artists have participated in voter registration drives
with the NAACP, Rock the Vote and others to encourage kids to participate in the
political system.

It should be obvious from their lyrics that these young men and women are pas-
sionate about what they feel, and many of them translate that passion into time,
effort and money spent trying to make a difference in a world that we — all of us
here today — ^have created. These artists use their influential role, as well as their
economic power, to make innumerable positive contributions to their communities.

133

Because of our shared sense of responsibility, the recording industry has stepped
up to the plate to tackle the disease and not only the symptoms.

We respect your role as a vocal advocate for the welfare of Americans with this
testimony, Madam Chairwoman, we want to indicate our willingness to work with
you, through our member companies and the artists, in this endeavor.

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today.

Mrs. Collins. Your time has expired, and more that you might
want to say can come out in the question and answer session.

Let me oegin the questioning at this point in time. When you
first began your testimony, you mentioned something about 90 per-
cent. Did you say that the RIAA does 90 percent of the sales of
records?

Ms. Rosen. Our members distribute and manufacture about 90
percent of the records sold in the United States.

Mrs. Collins. So you have a major responsibility then in what
happens in the recording industry in the sale and distribution of
records in our country. You would certainly agree with that, be-
cause you have 90 percent of those sales, right?

Ms. Rosen. Well, the individual companies have them. I am not
clear what you mean.

Mrs. Collins. If you are the major vehicle through which records
are sold, distributed, it would seem to me — and some steps that
you have already taken have been very positive steps, but certainly
your input with the recording companies themselves would be
very — we have a vote on the Floor of the House of Representatives,
so we are going to go and vote, and we will recess for 10 minutes.

[Brief recess.]

Mrs. Collins. This hearing will reconvene.

Ms. Rosen, I was just about to ask you that, since the RIAA sells
or distributes 90 percent of the record sales in the country, it would
seem to me that your suggestions to the record makers would be
of considerable importance, and so my question is going to be then,
are you advising or discouraging your members from releasing
music that is highly misogynistic and highly violent?

Ms. Rosen. I should clarify our role. We don't actually produce
or distribute the music at the RIAA. The individual member record
labels produce the music and distribute the music.

However, having said that, I think that we have played a posi-
tive role in bringing the individual companies together to talk
about these issues and to highlight the concerns that have been ex-
pressed.

Mrs. Collins. And what has happened as a result of the meet-
ings that you have had where you have pulled the industry to-
gether and discussed this?

Ms. Rosen. We have created this task force that I mentioned in
my testimony. The task force is comprised of the most senior Afri-
can American executives in the industry, women, other executives
working with rap music, and our intention has been to create a dia-
logue. We were intending to set up forums for communication with
kids, with artists, and community leaders and policy makers. We
are looking for ways to further support artists in their own efforts
to play a positive role. We are looking at doing voter registration
at rap concerts all summer, and

Mrs. Collins. All that is good PR, but what are you doing about
getting these lyrics out of the records, if you can?

134

Ms. Rosen. Well, frankly, Mrs. Collins, I think that what has
happened is that the sensitivity and the public communication has
had a positive impact. I mean we have an increasing amount of
artists like Queen Latifah and Salt-N-Pepa and others

Mrs. Collins. Well, you mentioned those, but they are the art-
ists themselves, but what is the record manufacturing industry
doing, the recording studios, what are they doing?

Ms. Rosen. I don't think that you will see the industry getting
together to decide what artists should and shouldn't say. Those de-
cisions will continue to be made by individual artists.

Mrs. Collins. Well, that is not what the Wall Street Journal
said. The Wall Street Journal said and this young lady — where is
that article that Mr. Steams referred to? And I know you are
aware of it — that she had good clean lyrics, she had a good beat;
I mean it was great music that she was doing; her name was
Boss — and that the recording studio told her that unless she used
bad language and dirtied up her music, that she wasn't going any-
place. She said, "I tried the straight, nice girl approach; it didn't
work." So now she sings rap songs such as "A Blind Date with
Boss" in which she acts out the seduction and murder of her date,
masomisogynistic.

Ms. Rosen. I don't know which to deal with first.

Mrs. Collins. Well, just deal with the right answer, the correct
answer, first.

Ms. Rosen. Well, there are a couple of pieces there. The story of
Boss is a little misleading in that Wall Street Journal article.

The reality is that the company that eventuallv signed Boss, Def
Jam, had no idea that she was an artist that had a different vision
before they were presented with Boss. She came to them as a rap-
per with her music already prepared, and they signed her and
worked with her that way. They had no idea that she was circulat-
ing as — a different kind of music, and that is just the truth. There
was no image that she had that some record company told her to
change.

Mrs. Collins. Well, that is not the story that is here. I know you
have read this. A year after arriving in Los Angeles, Ms. Laws and
Ms. Moores — Ms. Laws is Boss — and this is another lady, Ms.
Moores — walked into the office of two producers, Tracy Kendrick
and Courtney Branch. They insisted someone listen to them rap or
they wouldn't leave, says Ms. Kendrich. He and Mr. Branch lis-
tened and immediately began working with them, helping them
polish their material and giving them a place to live, and in the
meantime he talked about how they should dress in order to be
more effective on their records.

Ms. Rosen. Well, Mrs. Collins, all I can tell you is that if you
would like a clarification of Boss's career, I will try and arrange for
her to make a statement to you directly about the facts of her life,
but I would just encourage you to understand that the story is a
little misleading.

Mrs. Collins. Well, it may be misleading, but I also think that
the RIAA has a responsibility and certainly can carry a lot of lever-
age in this issue that is here. The issue is whether or not we
should have these lyrics that are just terrible here and that I be-
lieve that if you are a distributor of 90 percent of the record sales

135

in this country, which are a lot of record sales, no doubt that you
certainly have a great deal that you can say and do to encourage
the record companies to clean up their act, because their act is very
dirty at this point in time.

Now you say in your written statement down here, you said the
standardized label was implemented to increase overall consumer
awareness of the advisory sticker and provide parents with an
easy, identifiable means of singling out explicit lyrics.

How many parents do you think buy this music for their kids?
The average kid that I ever heard of in my life was the kid who
got an allowance or who works for his money end went to the
record store and bought a record, and you know that as well as I
do.

So in order to say, "Well, it is fully the parents' responsibility",
just does not hold water. It is not fully the parents' responsibility.
I believe it is the adults' responsibility and those who are in the
industry making money off of these lyrics that these kids are buy-
ing with their money.

Ms. Rosen. Well, I think we just heard three really intelligent
young people talk about their own understanding of the music and
talk about how this music has fostered a dialogue within their own
communities,

I mean the fact is, TV shows are happening, In the Mix is doing
stories, kids are talking, and music is stimulating a dialogue
through a vehicle they are comfortable with. The idea that sexism
and misogyny or violence are unique to musical expression by art-
ists in society just doesn't hold. It is going to happen with art if
it happens in society.

Mrs. Collins. Do you believe that the record industry has a re-
sponsibility to the consumer?

Ms. Rosen. Yes, and I believe we are fulfilling that responsibility
with the parental advisory logo.

Mrs. Collins. What do you think that responsibility is?

Ms. Rosen. The parental advisory logo will enlighten consumers
when music is of an explicit nature.

Mrs. Collins. Why hasn't it done so up to this point?

Ms. Rosen. Well, it does so.

Mrs. Collins. No, it doesn't.

Ms. Rosen. I don't understand. It does. It is there. It has been
there since 1991.

Mrs. Collins. And it has been overlooked. As you say in your
statement, it was too small and in some instances was placed else-
where on the tape, and you know that to be true.

Ms. Rosen. No. I said that we recognized that there have been
a couple of isolated incidents where the sticker was used improp-
erly. But I think the reality is that people have not felt that the
sticker wasn't used. I think the reality is, people don't like the
music, and so whether or not it is labeled really isn't the issue.

Mrs. Collins. Mr. Stearns.

Mr. Stearns. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.

Let me just say as an opening comment, Ms. Rosen, I appreciate
in your opening statement where you said that the Recording In-
dustry Association of America is now presently charting a course
for the future, social responsibility. That is what I understand you

136

to say, and of course, we would like to hear a little bit more about
what is happening in that area.

I want to ask you the same question that I asked the young peo-
ple in the first panel. Don Cornelius advocated a more stringent
system of record labeling than the current parental advisory. He is
in the industry, a host of Soul Train. So what is your opinion about
what he has said?

Ms. Rosen. Well, I don't think a rating system is practical for
a couple of reasons. Number one, if the purpose of the rating sys-
tem is to prevent kids from getting music, it is just not going to
happen. Music isn't like, you know, a chair, it is copyable. This
music started in the trunks of people's cars, in the home taping
machines, and kids distribute music to each other. So I think it the
goal is to do that, then the goal can't be reached.

I think the second problem, and one Mr. Eley, I think, can re-
spond to significantly better than I, is really the subjective nature
of ratings. Unlike video, which is the most common analogy that
we receive about ratings, where you really have a visual picture
and an audio script and you can put it together and there is not
much left to the imagination, it is all right there, music is much
more subjective. The combination of lyrics and musical composition
allow for numerous interpretations, and I think that is something
that would make a rating system extraordinarily difficult.

Mr. Stearns. Mr. Eley?

Mr. Eley. Yes, I do believe that you would run into a problem.
I alluded earlier to Queen Latifah. How would you rate a record
that, while it does use an expletive, does in fact promote a positive
thought, a positive attitude? She uses the expletive but not in the
context of what is commonly accepted as vulgarity, but we know
that the expletive is generally used in that manner.

Mr. Stearns. Don Cornelius also said and testified that gangsta
rap albums are bought outside the normal retail channels. Is this
true?

Mr. Eley. Sir, I think — Representative — that therein lies the
construction of what has come to be the problem. If we were stop-
ping this because it had begun mainstream, then we would be look-
ing at something different entirely. This music was popular pre-
cisely because it was not available. This music was not on the mar-
ket and then taken off. This music found its way into mainstream
America because there are children out there who finally started
talking to one another in languages, unfortunately, that they could
understand, and that is our problem. It is largely societal as well.

Mr. Stearns. Let me follow up. What is the demographics of a
buyer of gangsta rap? Is there any demographic information avail-
able?

Mr. Eley. You know, sir, I would like to get you some specific
information, but if I might, just from experience, just let me say
I know at 18, 19, 20 years old, we work with a lot of young people
in our offices, interns, mostly college educated. They listen to it.
But I was surprised to find — I work on weekends in a record
shop — that 32, 33-year-old bus drivers, workers, come in and they
buy it; they also are purchasers of rap music. I guess a generation
has grown up with that rap music.

Mr. Stearns. Ms. Rosen, anything you would like to add?

137

[Ms. Rosen shakes her head.]

Mr. Stearns. Perhaps, Mr. Eley, you might also comment about
this. When we were discussing this, the staff and I, we thought
that, you know, why is it that gangsta rap is so different from
other hard core types of music including heavy metal, grunge,
punk, and other kinds of music that predominantly are recorded by
white groups? I mean it is a more difficult question, but I think
maybe this goes along with what you are saying, why it was sold
and the outlet was so much different.

Mr. Eley. I am sorry, but I really want to understand you, be-
cause I want to give you the best answer I possibly can. Are you
speaking of the reaction to it?

Mr. Stearns. I am referring to the violent and the abusive lan-
guage that is in it.

Mr. Eley. Oh, well, I am not certain, in all due respect, that
there aren't lyrics in some of the hard metal stuff that aren't as
offensive and as pungent. My language was learned in Vietnam,
and some of that stuff in this music, I can't repeat in any of it.
Some of this is just tough language, and I have no idea.

Mr. Stearns. So the gangsta rap, the language is also, in your
opinion, seen in other types of music, too?

Mr. Eley. Yes.

Mr. Stearns. It appears, from our standpoint, it is predomi-
nantly in gangsta rap. Would you agree with that or not?

Mr. Eley. No, I wouldn't. I would have to differ with you on that.

Mr. Stearns. That is my time.

Well, if you will submit the typical demographics that you might
have, that would be helpful.

Mr. Eley. Surely.

Mr. Stearns. Let me ask you sort of a concluding question, both
of you. Some people have expressed concern about our interest in
this issue and have indicated that some critics of hip hop and
gangsta rap fail to acknowledge the effect of the artists' environ-
ment on their work. Are you concerned that we are even doing
hearings on this and that we are examining the issue of explicit
lyrics?

Mr. Eley. It all depends upon context. I happen to know and ad-
mire Congresswoman Collins' work. For many years I have known
that. So this would be entirely consistent for her. However, I think
that you have to be concerned about sending the wrong signal. If
you indicate that you can't come together for bans on PAC's or
guns or so many other things, to get together and agree that you
could ban a form of expression by a group — by groups that are pri-
marily black would send a wrong signal, yes.

Mr. Stearns. No one is talking about banning here. You under-
stand that.

Mr. Eley. Well, yes, I do. It is just that I wanted to reiterate the
fear that is there, because that kind of information, that is what
flows. That is the kind of misinformation that derives from these
hearings. That is the fear of government.

Mr. Stearns. Ms. Rosen, do you share his same concern?

Ms. Rosen. Well, I share his view that the members of this com-
mittee have the best intentions and have done a lot of good work
over the years on these issues.

138

I think the concern within the music community and the broader
progressive community is that society is very conflicted about these
issues. Society does not agree on what causes violence. You can
look at the assault weapons vote on the House Floor today. To say
that if they can't agree that guns cause violence, then are we going
to agree that music causes violence? Sexism also and misogyny is
something that happens every day in society, 75 percent of all
crimes involving women are sexual assault or domestic violent
crimes.

I think that it is important to have communication with the
media. I think that the entertainment industry offers a lot of com-
munication to demographics that other people don't reach. We rec-
ognize that music speaks to kids. On the other hand, I don't think
that we can always expect artists to live their life in a vacuum.

Mr. Stearns. The parental advisory that we have here, were you
against that when it was presented?

Ms. Rosen. No. In fact, we created it.

Mr. Stearns. So you are in favor of that, and you advocated that
from day one.

Ms. Rosen. Absolutely.

Mr. Stearns. And, Mr. Eley, do you also, for the record, say that
you advocate that?

Mr. Eley. Oh, yes, sir, absolutely.

Mr. Stearns. So both of you are, in a sense, saying that you
favor some restriction on the recording material by putting this.
You are on record as saying that.

Ms. Rosen. No. I am on record as saying that when artists
choose to make statements that have explicit content, that they
have a responsibility to tell people that is what is in their music.

Mr. Stearns. And that is why you favor putting this on records.

Ms. Rosen. Right.

Mr. Stearns. And you?

Mr. Eley. Yes, sir, I agree. I concur.

Mr. Stearns. So what we are talking now is, if you are against
any more than this — ^you accept this as a labeling on your material,
but you don't want to see any more than that, but you do advocate
that.

Ms. Rosen. Right.

Mr. Eley. Yes, sir.

Mr. Stearns. OK. I yield back my time.

Mrs. Collins. Ms. Rosen, let me say this, that you pointed out
that we do have a vote that is going to be in the House today on
attack weapons — assault weapons, and they are indeed attack
weapons — and there are other problems that we have in our soci-
ety. The problem is that we don't celebrate it musically. That is
where the problem lies.

It seems to me that when we have rap that people seem to enjoy,
the surrounding of it, when they laugh to it and party to it and
dance to it and meet young people, each other, they meet each
other over rap music, that is a totally different signal than the
other kinds of ills that we have in society.

You know, when they see it on television that some kid has got-
ten shot or killed, everybody is very, very sorry, you know, they feel
empathy for that family, but when they have rap music where the

139

lyrics are violent and yet they dance to it and it is seen as a pleas-
urable thing to do, that to me would seem to be just the opposite
of what you want to have happen in your society, and so for that
reason I think the music industry has a tremendous responsibility
not to have that kind of language in the music that it produces. It
just seems to me it just follows that is something that the music
industry can do and that you as a person in RIAA can encourage.

But I want to ask some questions of Mr, Eley.

Mr. Eley. Yes, ma'am,

Mrs. Collins. I certainly share your sentiments regarding the
repressive measures against unpopular people, and you say that
misogyny has no more right to hide behind artistry than does big-
otry. Indeed in a sense you say it is bigotry. Could you explain your
statement?

Mr. Eley, Yes, ma'am, I will, I think that anything that identi-
fies a group of people or a sect for violence or for attack based on
nothing other than the stereotypical character of that person or the
features of that person, stereotypical or not, represents a bigotry.
It is a dehumanization, a depersonalization, if you will.

Mrs. Collins. And you also mentioned in your statement — and
I am quoting now — exercise of greater vigilance to avoid aiding and
abetting the spread of misogynistic music should be given. Can you
tell us what you mean by this?

Mr. Eley. Yes, ma'am. I mean that the advisory sticker would
fall under that. I think we have to have more conversation. As I
indicate later in my statement, we do have to have dialogue with
our artists as they go into the studio. I just think when you speak
about responsibility and the ones that the record companies must
take, I think that responsible producers, responsible companies,
must talk about the social ills and ask the — the question has to be
raised regarding what is the art really doing.

Mrs. Collins. Do you think that the record industry is doing
anything at all about clearing up the lyrics?

Mr. Eley. I think we operate as best we can given the fact that
we don't — and maybe this is the right terminology, I don't know —
we don't censor them I with I guess it is called prior restraint be-
fore it goes out; we discuss it. Our music is often discussed, and
because these decisions are not made by the same person over and
over again, you do get a variance in the kind of music that is put
out.

Mrs. Collins. Well, if the recording artist comes to Motown and
has a song, and the lyrics are — ^the beat is fine and all this other
stuff, but the lyrics are certainly violent and misogynistic, would
there be someone at Motown who would say, you know, "You can't
do this", this is not acceptable for one reason or another, and then
change — ^you know, slightly change the lyrics so that it wouldn't be
that way? A sanitized version that would be used on the radio, for
example?

Mr. Eley. There are two separate issues. I will try to address
both. Our vice president of A&R, Artists and Repertory, who is in
charge of recording, Steve McKeever, is on record in previous hear-
ings as having said that Motown just does not do misogynistic
music, and that is his purview.

140

As to the matter of the clean copies of the record, I think it
makes a difference by which handle you pick it up. I think that it
also shows when we issue the clean lyrics, it means that we don't
want people bumping into this music unexpectedly. You have to
ask for it, if were more explicit. So we have clean lyrics provided
to radio stations because we don't want a child to have to bump
into this on the radio station. So the radio and the record industry
work together on that.

Mrs. Collins. Well, if the radio and the record industry work to-
gether on this, is it not possible that the radio and the record in-
dustry and the RIAA could work together and just sanitize all of
it?

Mr. Eley. Well then, I must say to you, what we would be doing
then is — there are people — and I guess we may as well admit this;
it is proven by the fact that it is popular — there are people who
want the other version. That is how this music came to be. This
music was not sold out of stores, this music was not sold in record
shops, this music was not manufactured by major record compa-
nies, this music came from independent producers, out of the
trunks of cars. People found it. Those people wanted it. I think that
just under the rules of commerce, to exclude them for purchasing
what they want as adults would not be consistent.

Mrs. Collins. Isn't one of the reasons that they want it because
it is out there? As adults — and we are not talking about adults. I
mean adults can buy what they want to buy. You know, we are
talking about teenagers, we are talking about kids, basically, who
are buying this stuff.

Mr. Eley. I do understand that, but the question would suggest,
or — I am sorry — ^the proposal would suggest that we cut the music
out for those people who do want to buy it, adults who do want to
buy it. I mean if we just released the sanitized version, we would
be doing that.

Mrs. Collins. Well, you are right on that score, but I don't agree
with that. I think it should all be sanitized anyway, but we aren't
going to debate that any more.

Mr. Eley. I mean from my personal taste, I might say yes.

Mrs. Collins. My final question is, there are many misconcep-
tions about how the recording industry works, and I would like for
you to explain to the Members your relationship with an artist for
the time that he or she gets a contract until the final recording is
actually distributed, please, Mr. Eley.

Mr. Eley. Well, an artist comes, and it depends upon what genre
the artist is in. An artist comes; he meets with an artist and rep-
ertory person, an A&R person; we try to decide the direction in
which the artist which wishes to go; and then we produce music
to accommodate that direction. At that point, it is turned over to
my department, the marketing department. We package, we do an
image, we interface with radio and video programs throughout the
country to bring the music to the marketplace. That is when we go
into our marketing mode, and from there it is a matter of getting
into our distribution system where it is sold. That is a thumbnail
sketch.

141

Mrs. Collins. But before it gets to marketing, the decision is al-
ready made about the l3n-ics that are going to be there. Is that
right?

Mr. Eley. The artist comes with lyrics, many when they walk
through the door, or the producer has songs, and, you know, I have
heard many discussions in which language has been tempered; I
have been a party to discussions where the decision has been made
not to go with a certain artist, and I can say with pride that at
least some of our women employees and executives have been in
the decision-making process as to whether or not we would go with
a particular artist, and it happened that we didn't,

Mrs. Collins. OK. Thank you.

We have been joined by the ranking member of the full Energy
and Commerce Committee, Mr. Moorhead.

Mr. Moorhead.

Mr. Moorhead. Madam Chairwoman, I am very interested in
the discussion, but I have no questions at this time.

Mrs. Collins. Thank you.

We have been joined also be Mr. Pallone who is a member of our
subcommittee.

Mr. Pallone?

Mr. Pallone. I have no questions. Madam Chairwoman.

Mrs. Collins. Thank you very much.

Well, we certainly thank you for appearing before us this morn-
ing. There may be some questions we have in writing, and if we
send those to you, please prepare to return those to us in 5 working
days. Thank you very much.

Mrs. Collins. Our next panel will consist of Mr. Ambrose Lane,
Jr., who is a radio announcer in Washington, DC; Ms. Tammy R.
Riley, who is an artistic manager for Flavor Unit Management; and
Grand Master Flash who is a rapper from New York.

Won't you come forward please?

Mr. Lane and Grand Master Flash, are they here?

Ms. Riley. I don't think so.

Mrs. Collins. If not, then we will call up the next panel as well.
We will call Dr. Tricia Rose, who is the assistant professor of his-
tory and Africana studies at New York University; Dr. Robin D. G.
Kelley, who is associate professor of history and African American
studies at Ann Arbor, Michigan, University of Michigan; and Mr.
Fred Evans, who is the principal at Gaithersburg High School.

Won't you come forward, please.

Mr. Evans, I think we will begin with you, and we will work
down this way.

STATEMENTS OF FRED S. EVANS, PRINCIPAL, GAITHERSBURG
(MD) HIGH SCHOOL; TAMMY W. RILEY, ARTIST MANAGER,
FLAVOR UNIT MANAGEMENT, JERSEY CITY, NJ; ROBIN D.G.
KELLEY, PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AND AFRICAN AMERICAN
STUDIES, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN; AND TRICIA ROSE, AS-
SISTANT PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AND AFRICANA STUDIES,
NEW YORK CITY UNIVERSITY

Mr. Evans. It still is the morning, so good morning Congress-
woman Collins and members of the committee.

142

My name is Fred Evans, principal of Gaithersburg High School
in Montgomery County, Md. I am pleased to be here today with
you to share my thoughts about this very important topic.

In 1954, Dr. Gordon Allport of Harvard University completed his
classic work, "The Nature of Prejudice", a comprehensive and pene-
trating study of the origin and nature of prejudice. Allport de-
scribed the process of how prejudicial attitudes would be expressed
through various levels of action from verbal antipathy to genocide.
He defined the degrees of negative action from the least energetic
to the most, and Allport talked about five levels. The first was
antilocution, which is a verbal antipathy toward individuals of
groups; the next level was avoidance; the next was discrimination,
physical attack; and then, finally, and most severely, extermi-
nation.

According to Allport — and I quote — "While many people would
never move from antilocution to avoidance or from avoidance to ac-
tive discrimination or higher on the scale, still it is true that activ-
ity on one level makes transition to a more intense level easier," —
that is my emphasis. "It was Hitler's antilocution that led German
citizens to initially avoid their Jewish neighbors and erstwhile
friends."

Rap music lyrics or any other communication form that demean
or diminish a specific group on a continued and persistent basis
can be utilized to justify more intense aggression or action against
that group. The language serves to dehumanize or depersonalize
the individuals in the group and can set the stage for more aggres-
sive action to take place with little regard for the consequences; for
example, separation from that group, slavery, or extermination.
The verbal or musical aggression will not automatically lead to
more negative action but can establish a climate of more violent ac-
tion if left unchecked or unchallenged.

I do not believe that abusive, violent, and misog3niistic language
in rap music can be blamed directly for America's very serious
problems of violence towards women or persons in different racial,
ethnic, or cultural groups. I do believe, however, that we must ex-
amine the anger and hostility contained in some of music, be it rap
or rock, to discover why it exists.

In no way do I excuse the very negative descriptions of certain
groups and actions in the music. Language that demeans or dimin-
ishes any group describes more about the feelings and attitudes of
the propagator rather than the recipient.

From my point of view as an educator, it is crucial that we know
what our students and children are listening to and being influ-
enced by so that we can provide guidance, leadership, and alter-
natives. Parents, teachers, and all responsible adults must act as
role models to correct action based on stereotypes and misinforma-
tion. Our children must get a different point of view from the
steady diet of TV, movie, video, and musical violence and depreca-
tion of targeted groups. Standards must be established about ap-
propriate and inappropriate language in school, in the workplace,
and in the home. We must also research, study, analyze, and de-
velop new strategies for dealing with the very real and dangerous
problems that confront our children. It is a national tragedy that

143

homicide, depending on what study you read, is the first or second
leading cause of death for persons 15 to 24 years of age.

My experience shows me that students react positively to pro-
grams that enhance self-esteem and build self-confidence. Tradi-
tional athletic programs as well as new initiatives such as mentor
and peer mediation programs are examples. Any time that you can
recognize a student for doing something positive, in my perspective,
will help along the way.

Educators, legislators, musicians, and all other concerned citi-
zens must work together and provide positive leadership and guid-
ance so that our children can make proper decisions about how
they will treat one another.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you.

Mrs. Collins. Thank you.

Ms. Riley.

STATEMENT OF TAMMY W. RILEY

Ms. Riley. Honorable Chairwoman Collins, first I would like to
thank you for inviting me to testify to this committee on the impact
of abusive, violent, and misogynistic language of rap music.

I am Tammy Riley, a 25-year-old Native American Indian woman
and an executive of Flavor Unit Management. This company is
spearheaded by Ms. Dana "Queen Latifah" Owens, a successful role
model, a rap artist, actress, African American woman, and CEO of
her own company at the age of 23.

I am here today to express my views on the lyrical and visual
content of music, TV, and other media in the entertainment indus-
try. I would also like to bring to the forefront a broader issue,
which deals with the greater societal ills that have created the con-
ditions which popularize targeting successful minority sectors of
business and industry for public dissection and scrutiny. Social ills
such as racism lead to stereot3T)es, economic disenfranchisement,
and miseducation.

Honorable Chairwoman C. Collins, I can speak firsthand as a
victim of violent acts committed against women and abusive lan-
guage used toward women. Therefore, I am not only testifying as
an entertainment executive but as a woman who is equally con-
cerned about the violence that threatens our communities.

What is the solution? Will we even come to a solution about vio-
lence and abusive language against women, men, children, and any
other being, considering this country, in my opinion, was built on
a lot of violence?

In conclusion, I feel parents should develop realistic lines of com-
munication with their children and shape their perception of re-
ality and not let the media do their job or blame the entertainment
industry for their shortcomings. Television and music should not be
our baby-sitters.

Thank you.

Mrs. Collins. Dr. Kelley?

STATEMENT OF ROBIN D.G. KELLEY

Mr. Kelley. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman and members of
the subcommittee.

144

My name is Robin D.G. Kelley, and for the record I just made
a couple of corrections. It is Robin D.G. Kelley. "Kelley" is spelled
with an "ey", and I am not an associate professor, I am a full pro-
fessor at the University of Michigan.

While I do agree that sexism and sexist language is a serious
problem among African Americans and in U.S. society as a whole,
to begin to deal with this issue, we need to establish at least three
things: One, rap music in particular draws on much older tradi-
tions of sexist vernacular culture that has to be understand histori-
cally; two, that misogynistic language in popular music is a symp-
tom of the culture and circumstances we live in rather than the
cause of sexist behavior; and, three, that censorship will not allevi-
ate sexism.

First, like virtually all of American culture, African American
vernacular tradition has a very long history of sexism evidenced in
oral forms such as toasting, the blues, and the age old "baaadman
tales." Some of the older toasts are more venomous in their use of
sexist profanity than much of what we find today in hip hop.

Although it wasn't marketed like rap is today, vulgar oral tradi-
tions have been in circulation. Indeed, one finds scholarly books of
such vernacular poetry edited by leading scholars in public and
university libraries and even the Library of Congress has sexist,
profanity-ridden recordings by artists like Jelly Roll Morton in its
own collection.

The historic characters from the "baaadman tales" of the late
19th and early 20th centuries such as Stagolee and Railroad Bill
were intended to be thoroughly bad, rebels against anyone who
stood in their way — the white man, the law, the community, and
women — and, in a context where lynching was seen by whites and
blacks as acts of racial class and gender domination, as a means
of keeping so-called "niggers" in their place and stripping black
men of any sense of manhood or sexual assertiveness. Black com-
munities who heard these stories derived both pleasure and fear
from these horrific tales of transgression and nihilism. That they
were profoundly sexist goes without saying, but they were never in-
tended to be mirrors of actual gender relations nor prescriptions for
how to live.

These characters were aesthetically compelling precisely because
their transgressions were so total, so complete, and hence so
m5rthic. Many, not all, rap artists draw on this tradition because
they too find the mythic baaadman compelling not only for its
sexism but for its resistance to police, to racism, to government,
and other embodiments of authority.

Yet we also need to ask why these sexist traditions are so com-
pelling to so many young men of all ethnic groups. Children are
rziised in a world where men are expected to dominate, to control,
to be the main breadwinner, and women are expected to be weaker
and dependent.

Despite the limited successes of the feminist movement, men and
women who don't fall within these roles are often treated as
strange exceptions. Indeed, as Susan Faludi points out in her book
"Backlash", TV shows like "Married With Children", and the so-
called new men's movement represent an adult male counterattack
on challenges to traditional gender roles.

145

Similarly, backlash has taken place among poor inner city men,
but with a twist. The very things associated with male power are
more difficult for these men to achieve. Permanent unemployment
and the constant threat of violence and incarceration has made it
difficult for men to be the primary wage earner, achieve financial
security, and establish patriarchal families. The shift to a post-in-
dustrial economy in which young urban African Americans have
fewer and fewer prospects has shaped rap music narratives about
sexual relationships and, as in the past, women have been the tar-
get of young men s frustrations. Indeed, except for the use of pro-
fanity, some of these young men's attacks on African American
women sound very much like that of conservative critics. Young
women are portrayed as welfare queens making babies merely to
stay on public assistance, or so-called "skeezers" who use their sex-
uality to take black men's meager wages. So many young men see
heterosexual conquest as a key element in achieving masculinity.
Of course, we must not apologize for or condone this behavior, but
if we want to eradicate sexism, we need to understand its roots.

The idea that male dominance is normal, particularly within the
context of a patriarchal family, is not new nor is it a product of rap
music. Almost 3 decades ago. Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan au-
thored an influential report that said black families were dysfunc-
tional because black men did not dominate. Women were blsimed
for many of the problems black men face, including poverty and
joblessness, which was particularly a function of the lack of a
healthy masculine self-imagine.

In other words, we need to look beyond sexist language and ex-
plore how young men learn to be young men. Oftentimes the most
hurtful forms of sexism do not involve profanity at all, whether it
is the fact that women still make less money than men for the
same work or the events surrounding the confirmation of Clarence
Thomas in which a Senate subcommittee condoned sexist behavior
and vilified Anita Hill.

The push for all-male schools in inner city communities similarly
reinforce sexist attitudes. The curriculum in many of these schools
emphasizes male role models in their readings and in the class-
room prepare boys for leadership roles and claim to be instilling a
sense of manhood through discipline and responsibility.

Mrs. Collins. Dr. Kelley, your time has expired.

Dr. Rose.

STATEMENT OF TRICIA ROSE

Ms. Rose. Thank you. Madam Chairwoman, for having me here
today, and members of the committee.

Abusive and misogynistic language in contemporary popular cul-
ture is p?.rt of a much larger and very complex process of devaluing
and oppressing women in American society. Specifically, in this
case, I welcome open discussion on the language, ideas, and lyrics
about black women that are the impetus for these and other recent
hearings.

However, these discussions should be part of a serious and sus-
tained examination of the way this society continues to allow insti-
tutional and cultural forms of oppression, most notably, class, race,
and gender oppression, to seriously damage the lives and opportu-

146

nities of African American women, and one of the central flaws in
mainstream thinking about misogynistic language and behavior,
and in fact in rap specifically, is that it is perceived as an aberra-
tion, as a departure from the logic of everyday treatment of women.
Instead, these extreme behaviors are part of a spectrum of sexist
practices. We must come to terms with that fact. Otherwise, we
cannot deal with this issue effectively.

As I point out in my book on rap music, "Black Noise", rap music
and rap video has been wrongfully characterized as thoroughly sex-
ist, but it has rightfully been lambasted for its sexism. As my seri-
ous attention to the music would demonstrate, alongside the rap
songs that are clearly troubling in its portrayal of young women,
there are many songs that are not. Still, I am thoroughly frus-
trated but not surprised by the apparent need for some rappers to
craft elaborate and creative stories about the abuse and domination
of young black women. Perhaps these stories serve to protect young
men from the reality of female rejection in heterosexual courtship
rituals which have always been one of the primary ways young
men establish their role as the more powerful gender. Maybe and
more likely, tales of sexual domination falsely relieve their experi-
ences of abuse and domination in society and limited access to eco-
nomic and social markers for heterosexual power. Certainly they
reflect deep-seated sexism that pervades the structure of American
culture.

On the other hand, given the selective way in which the subject
of sexism occupies public dialogue, I am highly skeptical of the tim-
ing and strategic deployment of outrage regarding rap sexism.
Some responses to sexism in rap music adopt a tone which sug-
gests that rappers have somehow infected an otherwise sexism-free
society. Now these reactions to rap sexism deny the existence of a
vast array of accepted sexist social practices which make up adoles-
cent male gender role modeling which result in social norms for
adult male behaviors that are equally sexist even though they are
usually expressed with much less profanity.

Few popular analyses of rap sexism seem willing to confront the
fact that this sexual and institutional control and abuse of women
is a crucial component of developing a heterosexual masculine iden-
tity. In some instances the music has become a scapegoat which di-
verts attention away from the more entrenched problem of redefin-
ing the terms of becoming a young man.

Now the boastful, vulgar, and profoundly misogynistic conversa-
tions I heard coming from the boys' locker room vents when I was
in high cool school were not the result of listening to music — ^this
was, of course, before rap — they were cultural rituals passed on by
older men. They were integral facets of young men's forms, of mas-
culine confidence building. Their language marked the terms of
privilege for men in training. Some of rap's sexism is like high-ve-
locity locker room chatter on CD.

Rap's sexist lyrics are also part of rampant sexism that domi-
nates the corporate culture of the music business. Not only do
women face gross pay inequities in that business, but many face
extraordinary day-to-day sexual harassment. Some male executives
expect to have sexual and social access to women as one of many
job perks, and many women, especially black women, cannot estab-

147

lish authority with male coworkers or artists in the business until
they are backed up by male superiors. This is across musical
genres.

To ask these corporations to act as cultural gate keepers on mat-
ters of sexism without asking them to make a serious commitment
to creating work environments that are not abusive and oppressive
to women is impractical and hypocritical.

What can we do?

First, mass media outlets, public schools, churches, government
offices all need to be challenged into opening a dialogue about per-
vasive and oppressive sexual conditions in their own institutions
and in society more generally. They need to be strongly encouraged
and rewarded for facilitating more frank discussion about sexist
practice and courtship rituals.

Second, public schools should be used to involve young people in
this project. Schools are an especially promising place for attacking
the logic that underwrites sexist ideas, words, and actions. In to-
days elementary and secondary schools especially, the current de-
valuing by omission of black women's histories and contributions
and the specific ways black women are oppressed must be cor-
rected.

Third, rather than having hearings in isolated ways like this, I
think we should hold more forums in black communities and dedi-
cate them to analyzing the history and the contemporary crisis of
sexism against black women specifically and think about ways to
revise these terms of gender identity training. Teachers, research-
ers, school administrators, activists, community leaders, and young
men and women should ail play a role in sharing ideas and infor-
mation and in listening to the ideas of others.

Mrs. Collins. Your time has expired. I am sure that whatever
else you wanted to mention will come out in the question and an-
swer session, Dr. Rose.

Mr. Evans, I wonder if you would tell us about your experience
with the theory of violence and language in the school system,
please.

Mr. Evans. Please repeat the question.

Mrs. Collins. I understand that you have some thoughts about
violence and language and how it impacts the school system.

Mr. Evans. Yes. I believe that it is important for a person in my
position or persons who work in a school to listen to and have
standards for what is appropriate in terms of discussion between
and among students, be that formal in a classroom or informal in
the halls, so I think we have to set standards for how students talk
to one another, speak to one another, as well as how staff, teachers,
communicate with students, and vice versa.

I think it is naive — or inappropriate, I should say, not naive — I
think it is inappropriate for us to just simply allow certain lan-
guage to go on and say well, it is kids, or that's the way they talk
these days, without setting some kind of firm standard. I believe
that if you allow that to continue, that, as Allport I think indicated
40 years ago, that then sets a climate for the next step, and that
is, if I can say something negative and dehumanize someone, then
there is no problem with separating from them, pushing them out,
and then if that is OK, it then becomes OK to physically attack

148

them, and then you get the most extreme form of extermination,
as he pointed out.

Mrs. Collins. Ms. Riley, you state that as we discussed gangsta
rap, you hope we will also look at the conditions that gave rise to
gangsta rap. Now Flavor Unit has given a lot of exposure to
gangsta rappers, and I am wondering if you are in a position to tell
us what your company has done to address these ills that seem to
plague our community.

Ms. Riley. Is that your opinion, or is that a fact that Flavor Unit
has given rise to gangsta rappers?

Mrs. Collins. No. I am asking you. I understand that Flavor
Unit has given a lot of exposure to gangsta rappers. Do you know
whether or not Flavor Unit has given exposure to gangsta rappers?

Ms. Riley. Yes, we have an artist that has been exposed as a,
quote, unquote, gangsta rapper.

Mrs. Collins. Has your company done anything to address the
ills that plague our communities?

Ms. Riley. Well, that artist has now been moved to a new label.

The language — I am not sure if it has changed or not, but we
have a diverse roster of artists. I mean we go from R&B, shy, to
a Queen Latifah, to a gangsta rapper, to have a different — and to
be different, so that whoever wants to listen to a gangsta rapper
listens to a gangsta rapper; whoever wants to listen to a shy, they
listen to a shy.

Mrs. Collins. Do you think that recording studios should be re-
cording lyrics, music with lyrics, that are highly offensive at young
people — ^by young people, I mean teenagers and kids who are even
younger listen to it?

Ms. Riley. Well, rap lyrics alone^I mean I don't think a studio
has any choice. You said — a recording studio gets paid a budget to
have this artist come in and record.

Mrs. Collins. Is that what Flavor Unit is, a recording studio
only?

Ms. Riley. No. We are a management company and a record
label.

Mrs. Collins. And a record label.

Ms. Riley. I work for the management company.

Mrs. Collins. OK. Would those who work for the label, would
they have anything to say about whether or not the lyrics would
be highly offensive?

Ms. Riley. I can't speak for them, but I would suppose they
would, yes. That the A&R person is signing an artist — then yes,
they would have something to say about it.

Mrs. Collins. Do you condone offensive rap language?

Ms. Riley. No.

Mrs. Collins. Dr. Rose, in your testimony you say that abusive
and misogynistic language in contemporary popular culture is part
of a much larger, very complex process of devaluing and oppressing
women in American society. I want you to explain that a little fur-
ther for us, please.

Ms. Rose. I will do the best I can in the time we have.

We tend to think of popular culture as a place where offensive
acts come from, and it is very hard to think about how those acts
operate in the popular culture as part of other kinds of relation-

149

ships. Black women have long been in very oppressive cir-
cumstances in this country not only economically, physically, emo-
tionally, economically; all forms of disenfranchisement speak to our
history. So I am not, in that sense, making a separation from the
popular culture.

I think popular culture is part of this larger process, and I think
when we think about what goes on in that space, we have to look
at the larger history and the way in which our educational process
doesn't necessEirily rewrite some of that history properly.

Mrs. Collins. Thank you.

Mr. Steams.

Mr. Stearns. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.

Let me first compliment all the witnesses for coming.

I know you came on your own time and expense, and we appre-
ciate your taking the time here.

I would like to get back to sort of the basic question that I have
asked all the panelists, and that is, Don Cornelius, the host of Soul
Train, has advocated a more stringent system of record labeling
than the current parental advisory.

I would like to ask each of you, how do you feel about his pro-
posal? If you could answer it very quickly, yes or no, with a few
explanation, that would be helpful, and I will start with Mr. Evans.

Mr. Evans. My feeling, I think there is a precedent with the
movie ratings, and my information from my students is that
doesn't work in essence, that 13 and 14 and 15-year-old children
can go to an R-rated movie with very little prohibition. I think if
a more stringent policy is going to be instituted, you have to look
at how it is going to be enforced, and if it is unenforceable, then
I wouldn't be in favor of it. Then it becomes h3T)ocritical.

Mr. Stearns. Ms. Riley.

Ms. Riley. Going back to what the younger people said earlier,
like Mr. Evans just said, and I have seen it happen, just like the
movies or what is on TV, the more you tell someone not to listen
to it or this is explicit, the more they are going to listen to it, and
I mean I see 12 and 13 -year-olds going to R-rated movies. I live in
New York City where I see children going to X-rated movies. I
mean there has got to be a different way if that is the way you are
thinking about regulating it.

Mr. Stearns. Dr. Kelley.

Mr. Kelley. Yes, I agree. I don't think it will make much of a
difference, and I think that in asking the question we should ex-
tend our vision a little bit, because we have to ask the same ques-
tion about literature. Do we put labels on William Burroughs' po-
etry, for example? Do we put labels on many of the important
ethnographies by Roger Abrams, like "Deep Down In The Jungle",
or Bruce Jackson's "Get Your Arse In The Water And Swim Like
Me", which is in a lot of major both public and university libraries?
All these have profanity, and I think that we need to make deci-
sions about what purpose it would serve.

I agree with all the speakers that it won't help anything and the
real problem, which I am glad this committee assembled, really is
about how to reduce sexism in American society.

Ms. Rose. I think it would be actually much more effective to
consider analyzing the content of what it is we find disturbing in

150

the communities. If we make space for talking about, say, for ex-
ample, what would be the equivalent of what someone might label
an X-rated rap record or some other kind of record, what would be
that content about, let's analyze what is problematic about it, let's
not just assume what is offensive and how we feel as logical, be-
cause, first of all, we wouldn't all agree on what that would be, so
we should have more conversation about that and analyze what is
going on there, educate people about a lot of what Mr. Evans was
speaking about, about behavior, actions actually create dialogue
where people feel empowered to talk about what is wrong with cer-
tain images.

Second, counterspeech. I really think the best way to deal with
certain kinds of abusive speech is with counterspeech and to create
a kind of public positive space for that kind of address. I mean
what would we do with "Birth of a Nation", again? This issue of
dealing with a film that is both incredibly sophisticated technically
and an incredible artistic achievement and profoundly racist. It is
not either art or abusive creativity, it is both, and we have to be
honest, open, and deal with that. We can't simply sticker it and
hide it, not put it in the Library of Congress. We have to have it
and talk about it. It is part of our lives. We have to be honest and
deal with it.

So I think censoring or, you know, creating grading scales is not
going to change any of that. I think we have to actually approach
it in a much more theoretical way.

Mr. Stearns. With a counterculture language.

Ms. Rose. Counterspeech, yes.

Mr. Stearns, Counterspeech.

You were kind enough to send the majority your book, "Black
Noise", but the minority, we didn't get a copy.

Ms. Rose. I have some with me. I would be happy to give it to
you.

Mr. Stearns. Thank you.

In listening to your testimony, you said this statement, and I just
thought I would ask the panelists about it, because the presuppo-
sitions that you have are important for us to understand, and this
is your statement, and I would like to read it. It says, "Few popular
analyses of rap sexism seems willing to confront the fact that sex-
ual and institutional control over and abuse of women is a crucial
component of developing a heterosexual masculine identity." Do
you want to explain that?

Ms. Rose. I thought you were asking them to expand on that.
Yes, I think — I thought my time was up already.

Mrs. Collins. His time is up, yours isn't.

Ms. Rose. Oh, OK. Should I answer it?

Mrs. Collins. Sure.

Ms. Rose. OK. That bell has got me trained.

I think we are very naive about the kinds of assumptions that
young men make about what it means to become young men and
how much — I am sorry?

Mr. Stearns. Is this applicable to one culture, or you think this
is universal?

Ms. Rose. I think this is American culture in general, absolutely.
I just saw two nights ago "Dazed and Confused", a film about the

151

seventies and adolescent culture— white suburban, adolescent cul-
ture — and you know what I was struck by, was the way in which
their representation of teen male adolescent culture was mostly
around how to get sexual access to girls. This was what adolescent
boys were basically spending most of their social time to figure out
in their social time, besides sports, in this film.

Now in lots of studies in sociological fields, it has been clearly
documented that young men learn how to be men by learning how
to be in control and to be powerful. The only way you can be in
control, run families, run your life in the workplace, give orders
tell people what to do, is to have people to control. '

Now, once you have a patriarchal structure, then you use it via
a number of systems— through language, through resources,
through attitudes, through physical presence. As a woman on the
street, I can't describe to you the extraordinary pressure I feel
when approaching certain kinds of public spaces and what that
means to me as a woman. Now none of those individuals nec-
essarily have to say anything, this is learned, this is a longer proc-

6SS.

Again, not everyone acts out abusively as a result in aggressive
explicit ways, that is not what I am saying, but I think it is a fun-
damental facet of what it means to move from a boy into a man
and if we don't confront that dynamic and say being masculine
does not mean being a military, you know, hero, not being Tom
Cruise, not being John Wayne— I mean let let's look at the heroes
that we have constructed in dominant American culture and I
think we will see some of that.

Mr. Stearns. Dr. Kelley, I am trying to understand the pre-
supposition that she has used in her opening statement. I am iust
basically finding out if you agree with what she has indicated

Mr. Kelley. Oh, I absolutely agree, and some of this is actually
laid out "^

Mr. Stearns. And it goes across all cultures'?

Mr. Kelley. Oh, absolutely. I just laid this out in my presen-

i°?u . T^^T^^ ^^^^' ^^^^^ ^s ^hy I suggested at the end, the
part that 1 didnt get to talk about was, we need to begin to under-
stand male socialization, and to do that and do it seriously requires
a kind of study that has as sort of resources that, say, the Kemer
Commission report did in the late sixties to study sexism, to study
gender relationships among men and women across the board be-
cause when you asked the question earlier about the demographics
ot the rap audience, I mean it is not an accident that it is not all
black males who purchase this music.

A lot of young white teenagers in Ann Arbor where I live right
now, every time I walk down the street, 9 out of 10 times it ii a
young white male who is listening to Dr. Dre, Snoop Doggy Dog
extremely loud in a nice BMW or whatnot, whereas many of the
r^^? ^^can Americans who are at the University of Michigan
;!f 1 offensive, ironically, that they play their music so loud, Ind
so the roles m terms of the public imagination are reversed

«nfl?,-7fii''1-%T c° ^°^ °^ ^°?^ ^* ^°^i^ relations and social roles
v^thin all of U.S. society and to do it seriously rather than allowing
rap lyncs to take responsibility for the way we live across genera-

152

Ms. Riley. I agree with her.

Like I said in my last statement, lines of communication, I be-
lieve, have to start at home. There are a lot — and I deal with them
every day. I have artists that solicit me with their music. I mean
I listen to rap music, I listen to jazz, I listen to everything, and I
used to be a rap artist, and being a rap artist propelled me into
this industry. I didn't want to do it any more, or whatever.

But I see a lot of the backgrounds of my artists that I am dealing
with now that have been through — males; I deal with male art-
ists — that have been through changes, and most of them, they are
venting through their music, through their lyrics. I mean some art-
ists used to vent through maybe, you know, being on the streets^
selling drugs, or something like that, and then someone came to
them or someone dealt with them through another means of com-
munication, and that is how they vent through their society prob-
lems.

To me, this is a bigger issue, this needs to be addressed through
more than just this committee.

Mr. Stearns. Mr. Evans.

Mr. Evans. I just want to make one additional statement, and
that is, I think we have to broaden the examination not only of how
males are socisdized in this society but how females are socialized,
and we need to have — I agree with Dr. Rose — a really broad dia-
logue on the whole socialization process, because the rules that
apply now in 1994 in terms of how to resolve the problems of vio-
lence are very, very different than in 1964 or 1954 when Allport
wrote his book. I think in many cases we are looking for old solu-
tions to very new problems. We need more unconventional or dif-
ferent kinds of solutions to the problems we have.

Violence has been a part of America since our inception, and we
have to deal with that as a culture. The fact that we had in this
country, I think last year, 13,000 homicides as compared to many
other industrialized nations is something that we have to deal with
as a culture. There is something about us that says that is a way
to solve problems, and indeed it is not an effective way to solve
problems.

Mr. Stearns. Thank you.

Mrs. Collins. Well, we certainly thank you for your testimony
today, as we did the others who testified before us. We may have
some questions for you in writing, and if so, we would appreciate
if you would return those responses to us within 5 working days.
Thank you very much for coming.

This hearing is adjourned.

[Whereupon, at 12:23 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

[The following statement was received for the record:]

Statement of George Lipsitz

I appreciate the opportunity to present my views to the subcommittee on the issue
of '"gangster rap" music. I speak as a professor of Ethnic Studies at the University
of California, San Diego, and as the author of 4 books and more than 40 articles
on U.S. history and culture. But I also speak from my 5 years of experience teaching
college courses at a maximum security prison in Texas, and as someone who has
been studying young people and their cultural practices in Southern Cedifomia cities
over the past 5 years.

I can understand and appreciate the committee's concerns about the abusive lan-
guage, violent imagery, and disrespect for women expressed in the lyrics of some

153

rap songs. I am quite troubled myself by the pervasive eroticization of violence the
open misogyny and the abusive tone that runs rampant through our culture^in-
cluchng through some genres of rap music. We desperately need positive educational
ettorts, structural changes in our economy, and collective cultural mobilization to
create eouity, equal opportunity, and mutual respect between men and women

But I believe that it is wrong and counter-productive to single out gangster rap
music for ^scussion without addressing the films, television programs, and adver-
tisements that are equally culpable in fomenting misogyny, sexism, and aggression
I believe that it is wrong and counter-productive to complain about misogynist im-
ages without also taking concrete actions against the misogynist practices that leave
males and females with very different relationships to education, employment cred-
it, housing, the law, and nearly every other area of endeavor in our society. I believe
that It 18 wrong and counterproductive to analyze gangster rap music in isolation
trom the broader cultural and economic circumstances of unemployment and police
surveillance facing the young people who create and consume it.

I have spent many hours trying to channel the energy and imagination of prison
inmates and inner city youth along what I believe to be more constructive lines But
1 have learned that it is a mistake to talk without listening, to assume that their
stances do not contain a grain of truth or that they do not serve important purposes
tor thein^ 1 believe that using this public forum merely to discourage the music in-
dustry from producing gangster rap songs will only increase the appeal of these
songs among the young. It will encourage the journalists, politicians, and social sci-
entists who have demomzed inner city youths in order to hide the social disintegra-
tion caused by two decades of neoconservative economics and politics. Most impor-
tant. It will forfeit a positive opportunity to enlist young people in collective efforts
to transtorm themselves and their society because it demonstrates a total lack of
comprehension and consideration for their concerns and their culture Starting a
discussion by attempting to suppress the other side will do httle to repair the
intergenerational ruptures that this issue exposes so forcefully

What kind of world do our children live in? In Los Angeles at the time of the 1992
rebelhon, nearly 20 percent of the city's 16 to 19 year-olds (40,000 people) had no
^o°o ^-^v ^f®. "°^ ^" ^^^°°^- '^^^ number of children living in poverty increased by
2.2 million between 1979 and 1989. Among latinos child poverty reached 32 percent-
among blacks it reached 43.7 percent. Almost 10 out of every 1,000 babies bom in
the United States die in infancy, a rate worse than 16 other nations. Black children
die at twice the national average —18.2 per 1,000 births. In south central Los Ange-
les, 22 black and latino infants out of every 1,000 die shortly after birth. Twenty-
three percent of male workers between the ages of 18 and 24 received wages below
the poverty Ime in 1979, but by 1990 the number had climbed to 43 percent The
percentage of full time workers earning less than a subsistence wage increased from
12 percent m 1979 to 18 percent in 1990. Between 1965 and 1990, black family in-
come tell by 50 percent; black youth unemployment quadrupled while white youth
unemployment remained static.

Unwanted as citizens, underfunded as students, and unemployed as workers mi-
Ti^r^rrSJ ^^^"^ wanted only by the criminal justice system. In Los Angeles, more
than 50,000 young people have been arrested and tagged as "gang members" in the
misguided and counterproductive "Operation Hammer." Harvard University econo-
mist Richard Freeman estimates that 35 percent of all black men between the ages
of 15 and 35 were arrested at some point in 1989. Black Americans make up only
cL^^^^AfA^ Nations drug users, but account for 43 percent of felony offender
convicted for <^g offenses. The proportion of blacks and whites committing violent
T^tl '""flf ^'^^^ 32 per 1,000 for blacks and 31 per 1,000 for whites. But the
fi!fl, K bracks arrested for aggravated assault in that year amounted to 3 times
the number of whites arrested for the same crimes.

In slavery tunes, the old people used to say that you can hide the fire, but what
M-e you going to do with the smoke? We can try to prevent young people from hear-

f^Jr^^i^l ""^P' ^""^ ^^^^ ^^} ^^ °^^^ t^^^ ^" return? Where can tKey take their
aneer and horror over what deindustrialization and the abandonment of the civil

Sldihn1fv"«,^nn^''^ ^°"^ ^ ^^^''" neighborhoods? One reason why rap artists have
t^^fv. fX AA^ ^° ""^^y y"'?"^ P®°P^e ^s because they appear to he telling the
«^H .nmr^^ addressing the realities of inner city life in a way that the news media
f^;Ia T^^*^ 1^^^^"^ ^-^^"^ "°^ ^° ^°- What alternatives do we offer to the heroic
W,rf«n/^^"^ rap unages which simply adapt to local circumstances the vio-
hJ^^ A "liTIT"'^ ^^^^ ^^ ^^ P"^^^ '"^ "mainstream" action adventure films star-
SpI«1^« 11. Schwarznegger, Bruce WUlis, Jean Claude Van Damme, and Steven
mmk rivf T=^ff f^?:,^T ""T^ misogynist or more violent than heavy metal or
fn ?hi2^?f f '^ "Til ^^^?^ '"^.^^! ^^° ^^^ ^ be denied the sadistic pleasures sold
m these staples of the culture industry? Are black women treated wiSi respect and

154 3 9999 05982 341 7

dignity outside of gangster rap? For that matter, what constitutes gangster rap? Is
Ice-T a rapper or a heavy metal artist? Are the metaphors used by PubUc Enemy,
Ice-T, and ke Cube in songs that critique the gang hfe to be suppressed along with
the songs that glamorize this life? In the past, politicians and journalists have dem-
onstrated little more than their own ignorance of popular culture when they have
attempted to single out songs for criticism, because they have opportunistically at-
tackea the most positive and socially conscious rappers instead of the most vicious
and sadistic ones.

Gangster rap is one facet of a broader hip hop culture that answers a culture of
surveiflance with a counterculture of conspicuous display. Young people in the hip
hop culture constitute their own bodies, gnetto walls, and city streets as sites for
performance and play. Defamed and despised by the dominant culture, they discover
ways to contest their erasure, to write themselves back into history by using tech-
nology, performance, and oral testimony to throw out a style that calls attention to
themselves and their world. Hemmed in by the spatial constraints of the post-indus-
trial city, they reconfigure space with placas ana graffiti tags, and they restructure
time by sampling music from the past as part of the present. Rap music, grafBti
writing, and car customizing turn consumers into producers while mocking the
prominence of commodities in American culture. Young people in hip hop drop their
family names and invent new identities for themselves that mock the world that
disdains them, as evidence in the names of rappers like Public Enemy, Special Ed,
Arrested Development, and Above the Law.

In their desire to be seen, to wield the symbolic currency of American popular cul-
ture, some rappers do deal heavily in misogyny, abusive language, and eroticized
brutality. How could it be otherwise in a population that increasingly experiences
incarceration in all-male penal institutions rife with violence and antagonisms of
every kind? But in a subciilture that makes an art form out of answering oack, they
are most effectively rebuked from within — by female rappers like Queen Latifan
who celebrate the accomplishments of black women or by politicized male rappers
like Public Enemy and KRS-1 of BDP who use their art to build affirmative identi-
fication with collective struggle. To encourage record companies or radio stations to
abandon gangster rap will only drive it underground and make it more lucrative.
It will hide the fire, but do nothing about the smoke.

If the same effort required to publicize the alleged evils of gangster rap went to-
ward public meetings that encouraged youiig people to speak about their experi-
ences and to formulate their own solutions, we would be supporting a level of edu-
cation and mobilization that might address the pervasive proDlems that loom behind
this whole discussion. We could use the knowledge and insights and energy of young
people instead of suppressing them. I don't want to convey the impression that I
think that the fans of gangster rap are idealists and optimists, that all they need
is a helping hand to become constructive citizens. Quite the contrary. My experi-
ences teaching in a prison and my interviews with young people over the past 5
years have exposed me to an unrelenting cynicism among young people; many of
them expect the worst of everjdhing and everybody. But this is a view they have
learned in our society, it reflects the reality they have known in the 1980's and
1990's. I think this is why conversations between the civil rights generation and to-
days young people are so diflQcult, why so often we seem to be talking past each
other. People who witnessed the transformations of the 1960's witnessed terrible
atrocities, out they had the advantage of seeing ordinary people take history into
their own hands and bring about some changes.

I think the gap between generations today is enormous. But it is, in my judgment,
a problem of poverty rather than a problem of black culture. It has close parallels
to what happened between generations among working class and poor people during
the Great Depression of the 1930's. Writing about the plays of Clifford Odets, Robert
Warshow described the gap the depression opened up between a father and his chil-
dren as follows: "For his part, he was always disappointed in his children, and his
sense of disappointment was often the only thing ne could clearlv communicate to
them. He succeeded at least in becoming a reproach to them, and the bitterness of
the personal conflict which ensued was aggravated by the fact that they could ever
quite see fi-om what he derived his superiority or what it was he held against them.
The children took hold of what seemed to them the essential point — that they were
living in a jungle. It would not be accurate to say that they failed to understand
the rest; so far as they were concerned, the rest was not there to see, it had retired
into the mind. They tri-^d to act reasonably. Every day they could see the basic
truth; without a dollar you don't look the world in tiie eye .... Their economic
strength comes from their ability to act as the situation demands even though the
situation is abhorrent to them. But the gap between the moral man and the require-
ments of reality has seemed to them so wide that they have been able to function

155

successfully only by imposing cynicism on themselves as a kind of discipline. They
have gone further than most in the acceptance of reality, and this is perhaps the
strongest kind of subversion — to take capitalism without sugar."

This is the cynicism of poverty; it is also the cynicism of gangster rap. It is ready
to give measure for measure to its enemies. But condemning gangster rap without
offering opportunities for young people to address and redress their grievances only
plays into its hands. It will add to its prestige by showing the outside world to be
as ruthless, unforgiving, and unyielding as the gangster rappers suspect. It gives
them something to be against, but nothing to be for. A better way is to not take
the bait, to not scapegoat a few artists and their audiences for the social disintegra-
tion we are now experiencing, but rather to build a coaUtion with young people,
using what they alreadv know about the world to battle together for a redistribution
of wealth and power that will provide a compelling alternative to gangsterism in
music and in social life.

82-668 (1601

ISBN 0-16-044889-1

9 780160"448898

90000

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Full text of "Music lyrics and commerce : hearings before the Subcommittee on Commerce, Comsumer Protection, and Competitiveness of the Committee on Energy and Commerce, House of Representatives, One Hundred Third Congress, second session, February 11 and May 5, 1994"

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